Book your reservations now!!!
That's right, start planning now for the big celebration coming June 27th, 2006! 
Some of you may have forgotten to mark your calendars...but we are only a few short months away from the 20th Anniversary of the Revelation of the White Devil's true face!
Some of you may have forgotten to mark your calendars...but we are only a few short months away from the 20th Anniversary of the Revelation of the White Devil's true face!The situation in Iraq cannot be understood in a historical vacuum. A look at this missing chapter of our sanitized history books (specifically U.S. foreign policy in Latin America since WWII) gives some frightening clues as to why we really invaded Iraq, makes our insistence that Saddam must be held accountable for violating UN resolutions truly hysterical and sheds some light on just exactly why so many of the inhabitants of this planet...well...you know...wish we were dead.
For more on this, pick up Noam Chomsky's 'Hegemony or Survival' (Kyle and I are currently reading it and there will be in-depth discussion come January). You've been warned.
For more on this, pick up Noam Chomsky's 'Hegemony or Survival' (Kyle and I are currently reading it and there will be in-depth discussion come January). You've been warned.
By Robert - 12/27/2005
30 Comments:
Great White what<
This one went right over my head -----I am goint to read that book!
Robert,
O.k., so they weren't any weapons of mass destruction in Iraq so you say Bush lied to us all in going to war...Saddam gassed hundreds of thousands of his own people. He gave money to terrorists and Iraq was proven to harbor terrorists. Should all of this have gone unnoticed by us? Should we really have continued to let Saddam rule and kill his own innocent people? I want to know what you, yourself would have done to correct this problem. Don't you think now that Saddam is out of power, the Iraqi people can now feel a sense of freedom? Why do you all continue to bash Bush's efforts in trying to protect not only us, but the Iraqi people. Do you really think we should have let Saddam stay in power? I pray to God you say no. i am sure you will all write back saying "look at all the thousands of innocent people that are dying over there for no reason at all"--and God rest their souls. Well, wasn't that the case there before we invaded? Our job, as the greatest and most powerful country in the world is to protect first and foremost the American people, and secondly, to let things, such as Saddam not go unnoticed. It is our duty to help out other countries that so desperatley need our help---IRAQ...
I wait with bated breath for your new Chomsky-ized conspiracy theories. You probably should have read the book before you promised to come forth with "frightening" insight on Iraq. That you didn't finish the book reflects your confidence that you'll surely be able to come up with something; and I'm sure it will be frightening in its own way. I just hope it's something better than your Iran-Contra parallel which could be paraphrased as something like "The Reagan administration was wrong w/r/t Iran Contra so the Bush administration is wrong w/r/t Iraq."
Also, "White Devil????" Is there any reason to bring race into this?
This is wonderful!! Last night I asked my lucky star to send me an anonymous response just like this one! I have heard and responded to dozens of them since the Invasion of Iraq, however, having recently read Chomsky I have a new perspective that I am dying to share...
You see, in the past I had squabbled too often over bread-crumb-sized issues (for example: What was the exact wording of Resolution 1440?). Like so many people on both sides of the issue I was down in the trenches and completely missing the bigger picture. I was, as I warned against in my post, viewing the Iraq situation in a vacuum.
"Should all of [Saddam's atrocities] have gone unnoticed by us?"
Great question! You've painted a picture in which the U.S. was going about its business, caught wind of Saddam's cruel deeds and was faced with the moral dilemma of whether to turn a blind eye or stand up for the Iraqi people. Seeing as how you are living in this parallel universe, I can completely understand how you would support such an invasion. This is not reality though.
If you are serious about finding answers I recommend picking up Noam Chomsky's 'Hegemony or Survival' or any book about U.S. foreign policy in Latin America since WWII. Here we find the more overt/ugly examples of the "greatest, most powerful nation in the world" directly sponsoring terrorism, assassinating democratically-elected leaders, committing top-notch atrocities against soft targets and getting caught red handed again and again!!! We were found guilty of crimes against humanity that make Saddam seem like Martha Steward by the International World Court (see link in post)! But let me tell you, being the most powerful nation in the world sure comes in handy when you're found guilty of crimes against humanity!
Once you see the last 50 years from a bird's-eye-view, it is much clearer how Iraq fits into the picture: Saddam is one of many in a pattern of U.S. SUPPORTED dictators who were propped up and armed, not WITHOUT KNOWLEDGE of the atrocities they committed or even DESPITE the atrocities they committed, but BECAUSE of them!! All in an effort to insure that labor movements the world over were repressed, taxes un-imposed on American companies and resources easily exploitable.
The job of the propaganda artists is to spin every attack into an act of self-defense, catering to people's fears and sense of nationalism. The fact that you don't even question U.S. support of Saddam while he was openly committing his atrocities or even know about those WE committed in Nicaragua and Guatemala (only 3 presidents ago) is a testament to how well they have perfected their craft.
Read 'Hegemony or Survival.' Look into the claims with whatever historical sources you deem trustworthy and next month we will discuss it in-depth. I hope to see you then. (If you choose not to pick up this book and return to the debate I will assume it is because you PREFER your rosy, sanitized, inaccurate reality.)
Pete, I just saw your comment and will deal with you in the morning.
Wow. Good idea. It sounds like you could use some sleep.
We decided to support Saddam against Iran because we wanted to quash organized labor and avoid paying taxes in Iran?????
Stunning.
Before you launch your campaign to re-fight the Cold War it might be a good idea to read at least a bit from a source even a smidge to the right of Chomsky. Any other source you could possibly find will do.
You might also want to remind yourself that this was a time when Russia and the US were openly and hostilely competing to build the better nuclear bomb.
Pete,
First off, I explained the parallel btw the Bush Doctrine and the Reagan Doctrine three times and three times you incorrectly paraphrased it with the same sentence. I am done repeating myself on that one, any of our readers who have been following your responses now know what a broken record sounds like.
About Chomsky...it seems to me that this chapter in history (U.S. intervention in Latin America since WWII) has fallen through the cracks and hardly been touched on in this forum. It seems to me that it might shed some light on the reasoning/timing of this administration’s policy in the Middle East. My goal is to motivate a handful of people to read about it in order to discuss it in January. Since Mr. Chomsky was unavailable to comment, I am doing my best to fill his shoes and spark debate.
According to Chomsky, quashing organized labor, avoiding taxes and keeping resources exploitable are 3 of the main, underlining reasons that Bush/Reagan/Clinton prop-up these Saddam types. There are more reasons and, as you ponted out, Saddam doesn’t fit all of them. (With the first two, I was referring more to Central and South America...guys like Noriega. With Saddam I do believe, as Chomsky says, that some of the reasons were to divert attention from domestic failures, establish that U.S. policy supersedes international law and set the precedent of preemptive attack. I do think that the third point, control of natural resources, also plays a major role in the decision to neutralize this 'imminent' threat as opposed to say...North Korea, but I would guess that the appeasing of the arms industry/reconstruction contractors played just as big a role as the appeasing of the oil industry.)
Pete, here’s an idea! Pick a book of comparable length that explains why the U.S. needed to prop up these Saddam-types in Latin America and the Middle East in order to win the Cold War and save the planet from the blood-thirsty Russians. Give me the name of one book and I’ll read it and suggest that our readers do the same. Then in January, maybe you can prove to us that every U.S. hypocrisy, illegality and atrocity was/is justifiable.
Bob,
You also might want to check out "The People's History of the United States," or "The 20th Century," both by Howard Zinn. They offer very much unsanitized versions of U.S. history that 1. makes you realize all the stuff we were spoon fed in school is mostly bullshit 2. we (the U.S.) are not always the good guys in every situation 3. can make you sick/raged at the truths that are not offered to people 4. history truely is written by the conquerors.
Lavare Burton
Lavare, I was a huge Reading Rainbow fan. That made me laugh.
I haven't started the Chomsky yet, but I'll get on it. Too busy eating.
hey Folks:
Please do NOT mistake mild, mannered, Golden -Rule type person, a WONDERFUL American Patriot & general all around good GUY----- ME- Petey
With: Every / Man /For Himself ---ONLY THE POWERFUL SHOULD HAVE ANY POWER---- RIGHTIE --- PETERPATTAKOS
Bob & Kyle,
I see that you have the right wing dogs barking. This is quite understandable that they feel quite uneasy about some OPEN THOUGHT and anything other than their pablum/ Ditto Diet.
The most disturbing to them will probably be the discovery that the USA has done some very, very naughty things to stay # 1.
What is so inconsistant and random with the whole Bush/Neo Cabal's behavior is that we probably should have "propped" up the Hussein regime in Iraq with some carrots so that we would benefit with more oil & other goodies.
This would have been consistent with our support of the Shah of Iran, and much of our behavior in the Americas that you are aware of.
Thank you for being informed young persons who seem to value TRUTH over Propaganda!
&&& Keep up the good fight against these Ditto/ Propagandists.
Sincerely
Anonymous: "Iraq was proven to harbor terrorists"
Really? Not the type of terrorists that had shit to do with 9/11. Whatever.
Bless you, bob, for having the energy to go through this over and over. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. Right now, I don't. I am glad you are there to pick up for me.
So what all you rightys are saying is that Saddam is the only dictator in the world that has killed? What about all the other dictators in the world that have done the same? Just because we are the "most powerful" nation on earth doesn't mean that we have to flex it! The U.N. is for that purpose. And don't tell me it doesn't work! Superpowers don't last forever. Look at Britain, Spain, Persia, France, Romans, The Turks ....etc. The world is much better when countries act together not alone. Now don't make me kick you in the nuts! Stop being so closed minded!
Cheney was pissed because all the contracts that he had secured with Saddam after the first Gulf War were going to the French and Russians! It is much more lucrative to go in and blow everything up and then get paid to fix it again. And by the way, it has been documented, accurately, that Cheney did visit and have contracts with Saddam to rebuild their oil infrastructure after the first war.
Is it Red Thursday yet?????
Bob...Perhaps you can't paraphrase your Iran Contra/Iraq connection any further than I do because it's exactly as I've phrased it... You say that Iraq was immoral and illegal, and you haven't explained how.
I've addressed your Chomsky/resources connection in the post that I've emailed you that I hope you publish tomorrow.
Petey...thanks for clearing that up. I certainly would not want us to be confused. It's interesting that if I'm so "every man for himself" and you aren't, then why would you have had the Iraqi's fend for themselves against Saddam's rape/torture squads?
Also...Bob...what's with "White Devil"?
Is that necessary?
that last comment by anonymous is DIRECTLY ON THE MARK!
Why do you think Bush 1 tried to reopen business with Iraq? Because they (bush/cheney/rumsfeld/etc) thought they could clean up. Then when Saddam told the US to screw off, those guys were pissed....so they decided to turn on saddam.
That is not a conspiracy theory...that is just making sense of the on-again, off-again relations of the US and Iraq.
The truth lies somewhere between all of your views, but none of ou are right.
Hey Chucky,
In response to you commenting that Iraq harbored terrorists that had nothing to do with 9/11... Well I guess you never heard/saw the proven facts that al-Zarqawi, one of the masterminds in the 9/11 attacks received medical treatment in Baghdad and helped to orchestrate the assassination of a US diplomat in Jordan. You would think this proves the notion that Saddam Hussein had al-Qaeda ties. whatever.
Sorry forgot one more thing. In response to "Bless you bob for having the time do go over and over this... You two should honestly get a life rather than continuosly sit in front of a computer each day and write on a blog bashing not only Bush but the U.S. Can't you get over the fact that Bush won and your boy Kerry is a loser? Also, why is it that all you liberals still have their Kerry/Edwards bumper stickers all over their cars a year after he lost?!?!?! Can't you all GET OVER IT?!?!? guess not...
I am unaware of that proven al-Queda/Iraq link. You should call someone in the State Department, because it is pretty valuable that you have such evidence.
http://search.gulfnews.com/articles/05/05/15/165017.html
need i say more? And please don't tell me this was possible without Saddam's knowledge.
Anonymous,
Great link!
Except for the fact that the Al Zarqawi hospital visit you cite happened in May of THIS YEAR...2005. Saddam was taken into custody in December of 2003!! So Saddam must have aided Al Zarqawi from his prison cell in the Green Zone (that sneaky bastard). If you think that this evidence "proves the notion that Saddam Hussein had al-Qaeda ties," you are honestly mentally deranged.
Good Morning Bob & Kyle,
This is so funny! Looks like the right's house of cards is falling down like ten story structures in Pakistan!
Just goes to show what Nuns once told me: If you lie once you will keep on lying just to support that lie. and: Pretty soon you will be believing your own lies (which is a form of hell for your mind)
What more absurdities are we going to hear from the Neo Disciples in support of their rein of rippoffery on the world?
& Peter, Do you believe in that Noboby is entitled to any "entitlements" if so, thats "every man for himself"
Its easy for a young person who has no handicaps has a gainful job etc. to believe this...but just wait until you become one of the unfortunate and your tune will change about 180 degrees.
Corporate welfare & outright stealing is whats bankrupting all the social programs - but the powers have you programed to blame your unfortunate neighbors. Presently, the baby boom generation is being targeted as a scapegoat for much of the deficit (caused by Enron / Noe type fraud and outright stealing of public funds). The Baby Boom generation has paid more thatn its share - in fact the SS rates & ages were adjusted during the Reagan Admin. to CURE the problem.
Like I said - you should wake up to the fact that nearly anything that you hear from you people in power concerning their "LIBERAL" spending habits to their donors is a complete diversion from the truth!
Other that that , since we at least have the same first names,
Happy New Year,
Your enlightened (I have Seed da Lite!)
PETEY
I see "W" stickers too, jackass! Is the only come back that you have is that the liberals are anti-american or sore losers. Come on! You are not a loser when you steal two elections! Here is my evidence.... This blog! I see that you have something in common with Bob....You also sit in front of a computer all day on this site! Get with it, most of us jump on every now and again to comment. We aren't glued to it. One last thing, You should clean up you own yard before you start someone else's!
One last thing....
I think you rightys are un-american. You guys are for narrowing freedoms. If you believe your party so much join the military and fight! Or is it that you lack the courage?
Petey,
I'm not sure where you get the idea that I'm not in favor of wealth redistribution (see my Red Thursday Post), and I don't know if I've ever posted about "liberal" spending habits or social programs. I don't think it's fair of you to attribute ideas to me that I've never expressed.
Also, if you're in favor of social programs, then you ought to support what we're doing for society in the Middle East. The ultimate social program.
Happy New Year to you too.
Peter
Peter,
I get the idea that you dont seem to realize that the 300 billion $$ (and counting) blown on Iraq will heavily impact ALL of our social spending for years and years.Bill Frist actually stated this in his statement describing why it is necessary to cut social programs. And these cuts (education for example)will be detrimental to the future of our Nation.
I guess thats what you are implying by you "wealth Distribution" statement is that you are more in favor of wasting SS funds on foreign adventures than using the funds for their intended purposes ( to care for retirees)
Would you please for a moment step back and think about the enormous costs of this Iraq blunder?
& sadly Peter, I must inform you that "Democracy" in Iraq has a slim if none chance of germination. Recheck the history of this region and you will be enlightened by attempts by other outside interests to shape the affairs of this region.
So I say the money and the lives of our service personel are being terribly wasted and we need corrective action NOW - which will most likely come from the Bush administration only after the carnage has continued for some time.
PS: I am a HAWK, a Military Historian and currently work for a fraternal Veterans organization that was resposible fro delivering the two Biggies to Japan in 1945 - so this aint just some "Commie - Pinko- Liberal" telling you this son!
Other than that - consider this for you Happy New Year,
Petey
The War in Iraq will impact all of our social spending for years...hmmm...just like WW2, Korean War, and the Vietnam War spawned the New Deal. Riiiight. As far as previous enlightened attempts by outside interests to shape the affairs of the Middle East, none of these attempts are comparable to what is going on now. There has never been an attempt at representative government like this. Nothing remotely close.
Peter: just let go on the Party line for once and read this:
"Inventing Iraq" by Toby Dodge
http://www.columbia.edu/cu/cup/catalog/data/023113/0231131666.HTM
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