Oct 17 - 46/45 - McCain +01
Is it 2008 yet?
I'm taking a very time-consuming class this semester, so my posts will be limited for a few weeks. I'll try to keep up. In the meantime, here are a few ideas floating around, some we have discussed, and some we haven't.
Bush's Health Care Plan
President Bush decided to give domestic policy another crack before he's out of office. The latest brilliant proposal includes *surprise* tax cuts. Bush wants to give people a tax cut for buying their own health insurance, and a tax increase for those who receive employer-provided health insurance. Those who currently purchase their own health insurance receive no tax incentives, so this plan would help them. However, it doesn't take into account, or plan for any regulations on the rising cost of health premiums. Currently, people can be denied insurance if they are sick, and that policy would continue under Bush's incomplete plan. "Since Mr. Bush took office in 2001, the number of people without insurance has increased by more than 5 million, to 46.6 million, according to the Census Bureau." - NY Times
The State of Bush
According to the latest Newsweek poll, Bush's approval rating is 30%, and 58% of people wish his presidency were over. The weak Congress (both this and the last) is criticized by 64% of Americans for not doing enough to stop Bush's policies. No foresight at all, eh Americans?
Iraqi leaders turning to Democrats
Leaders in Iraq are establishing strong relationships with Democrats, since they are now in control of both houses of Congress. Iraqis don't want the US to abandon Iraq (and Democrats don't want to either!), so they are making their needs clear. Iraqis also seem to find some hope in the new leadership: "I see that the Democratic ideas are more related to reality," said Ammar Tuma, a lawmaker who serves in Maliki's ruling Shiite coalition. "They talk about the real problems that the Iraqis are facing every day." - LA Times
We need to find a realistic solution to the war in Iraq, NOT escalating the war, and NOT provoking another war in Iran. Both are Bush's course of action, and both will lead only to more chaos and death.
Bush's Health Care Plan
President Bush decided to give domestic policy another crack before he's out of office. The latest brilliant proposal includes *surprise* tax cuts. Bush wants to give people a tax cut for buying their own health insurance, and a tax increase for those who receive employer-provided health insurance. Those who currently purchase their own health insurance receive no tax incentives, so this plan would help them. However, it doesn't take into account, or plan for any regulations on the rising cost of health premiums. Currently, people can be denied insurance if they are sick, and that policy would continue under Bush's incomplete plan. "Since Mr. Bush took office in 2001, the number of people without insurance has increased by more than 5 million, to 46.6 million, according to the Census Bureau." - NY Times
The State of Bush
According to the latest Newsweek poll, Bush's approval rating is 30%, and 58% of people wish his presidency were over. The weak Congress (both this and the last) is criticized by 64% of Americans for not doing enough to stop Bush's policies. No foresight at all, eh Americans?
Iraqi leaders turning to Democrats
Leaders in Iraq are establishing strong relationships with Democrats, since they are now in control of both houses of Congress. Iraqis don't want the US to abandon Iraq (and Democrats don't want to either!), so they are making their needs clear. Iraqis also seem to find some hope in the new leadership: "I see that the Democratic ideas are more related to reality," said Ammar Tuma, a lawmaker who serves in Maliki's ruling Shiite coalition. "They talk about the real problems that the Iraqis are facing every day." - LA Times
We need to find a realistic solution to the war in Iraq, NOT escalating the war, and NOT provoking another war in Iran. Both are Bush's course of action, and both will lead only to more chaos and death.
By terra - 1/28/2007
34 Comments:
I was thinking of doing a post on the health care proposal, but I will just get to it now....
At first, I was intrigued. Sounded like it made some sense. Of course, I recognized it as a tax cut, but that is not a bad thing. But then, in addition to Terra's point abou the whole not actually helping insure actual sick people, I considered/learned 2 facts of the proposal:
1) Bush's OWN NUMBERS say it will only insure another 3-5 million people. So big frickin deal.
2) There is going to be a REALLY BAD long-term consequence of the plan. What incentive does this plan leave on an employer to give insurance? Umm, none. Hence, mass amounts of employers will say, "just get your own insurance with your tax credit." With less incentive on employers to give health insurance, I think it is safe to assume LESS people would be insured in the long run.
(plus, with the rising costs of health care, it is estimated that the credit will not even cover a healthy person in about 8 years).
Good article.
Tax credits are worthless if you don't even get enough credits to get over the standard deduction. Big deal, I get a tax credit, but I still only claim the $10,000 deduction, so I get nothing. It also sort of penalizes those who receive insurance (and pay for it, remember), by taxing us for the benefit we receive (and pay for!). Some of us don't even get sick, but we still have to pay for insurance, and then Bush wants to tax us on top of it. Nice guy. I'm glad that pretty much the entire country has better sense than he does.
Good point Chuck. Only in Bush World could a health insurance plan leave more people uninsured.
Or Orwell World.
You get credits regardless - credits have zero to do with the standard deduction. You can take the standrd deduction and as many tax credits as are allowable. There is a difference between a tax credit and tax deduction. Hence Terra, you could take both.
If it is an increased deduction then you are right, but if it is a tax credit for being self-insured then you are skewing/misinterpreting the tax rules.
Furthermore, there are certain kinds of tax deductions, like tuition adn retirement planning, which you get to take before the standard deduction and which aren't subject to the standard deduction threshold. For as much time as you spend discussing taxes you might be well-served to buy a used tax text book and read/skim the first few chapters to gain a rudimentary understanding of how federal taxes actually work.
Ok. I was mistaken between tax credits and deductions. Bush's plan calls for DEDUCTIONS. "At the same time, Mr. Bush would create a tax deduction for health insurance of $15,000 for families and $7,500 for individuals."
Additionally, health insurance benefits would be treated as income, and taxed as income. "A family with coverage worth $18,000 would have to pay taxes on the amount exceeding the $15,000 standard deduction — $3,000, in this example."
"Katherine Baicker, a member of the president’s Council of Economic Advisers, said the proposal would increase taxes for 30 million people with the most generous employer-provided health benefits."
"But deluxe health plans are vanishing fast. In recent years, many workers have found themselves paying more for less comprehensive benefits. From 2000 to 2006, premiums for employer-sponsored coverage rose 87 percent, about four times as fast as workers’ earnings, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation."
Sorry Terra - I didn't look at any of the links or really read much into the actual context of the plan - I was really just making a general comment.
This plan doesn't seem like anythign too great to me either. Chuck, in response to your second point - I can see where you might think that this would be a disincentive to employer healthcare and that is a valid point - I disagree in part - I really just think it would lead to more limited employer provided healthcare coverage whcih would be bad for some, and good for some others.
Under the plan Terra, and as the article text you pasted describes, the tax would only be applied where coverage exceeed a minimum threshold (something I don't necessarily think is ideal) - outside of health insurance, this is something that already occurs for other forms of employer provided insurance. For instance, I pay a significant amoutn of taxes on my life insurance (both through work and on my own) because my employer provided life insurance (which I pay for) exceeds a threshold. This is an election I make every year - which is more important to me, carrying more insurance or nto paying the tax - a choice I imagine more people would be making if these changes actual went into effect. I am not making this point to say I think any of this is a good idea, I am mroe just tryingt o draw to your attention that this is not a novel concept, just the application of a similar tax rule to a different form of insurance, etc.
the plan is stupid. just another dumb plan that won't work, let alone become law.
has bush done one meaningful thing in the 2nd term?
Its a godamn - NONPLAN!
If Bush was really serious about healthcare - he would use some of his immense power to shake out all the waste and brainstorm a win/win/win situation for the whole nation.
OHHHHHHHH, If he only had a brain
Actually, his NONPLAN will cause employers HC plans to become too expensive to have because all with good health will take their insurance elsewhere - leaving only less healthy persons in the employers pool.
This Health "Pool" concept is the biggest crock of doodoo ever. The only legitamate HC pool would be ALL of a large group , such as a state - where therefore a balance of health risk is found. Any "Pool" less that balanced is a charade created by the insurers only to charge large fees.
Sorry Repubs , but the only way to solve all this is to viciously castrate the bloated -gluttonous insurance companies by govt regulation and govt intervention into this HUGE problem.
Its important to know the stategy of the Insurance Cabal:
Deliver the least Health Care for the LARGEST Profit. And why the hell not??? (from their perspective)
Petey-
Like I said, I don't think this is a good plan at all, but in a lot of ways this plan seesm designed to cut into insurance co. profits. Insurance companies make the most money by having employer-sponsored healthcare plans that pay for "deluxe" packages which go under-utilized. I would think that a plan which taxes people for under-utilized employer-sponsored healthcare would push people to pare-back or tailor their healthcare to match actual needs and thus cut into the insurance companies' bottom lines. This doesn't mean this plan is any good though - it is still crap like Chuck said.
I don't see anythign wrong with smaller pools Petey - they more appropriately assign risk just as auto insurance companies do. The key making one of thse types of plans successful would be to focus nearly all or the bulk of government support for healthcare to the high-risk/high-cost healthcare pool. That way the people least able to afford and manage their own care would be supported by the government and everyone else would be paying a more fair price. You would essentially end up with everyone paying the same amount (roughly) for healthcare, except for those who couldn't, who would essentially be covered by governmental subsidy, meaning that everyone, not just individual companies, would be sharing the burden for those unable to afford their own healthcare. As a means of enforcement, healthcare coverage would just be required the same as paying taxes. everyone would have affordable healthcare and no one would be left out in the cold. Furthermore, this would allow for increased efficiency in healthcare management and would drive down insurance co/healthcare provider profits because they would no longer be looking to milk as much money out of a corporation as possible - instead the focus would be on managing an approariate risk portfolio just as is the case with a bank or other types of insurance companies.
high-risk/high-cost healthcare pool
and here we have the largest segment of the poulation when the baby boomers retire.
The amount of "uninsured" is a misnomer-how many of these can afford insurance and choose not too? We already have a system in place to pay for those that are unable to pay for healthcare-its called Medicaid. Healthcare isn't anymore of a right than the right to food. You should at least contribute something to receive the benefits.
As long as the HIAA maintains their monopoly on healthcare all of the cosmetic reforms are pretty inconsequential in the long run (including tort reform)
Hate Bush, big business, the religous right or whomever you choose that is your RIGHT. But please save your whinning for something that matters. His plan was dead before he proposed it. The man is a lame duck domestically and any of the serious issues facing this country will once again be avoided.
Having said that on my last job I had an amazing health plan and always wondereed why it was not taxed in some form as part of my compensation package.
fred you are what we refer to as a rational person with sense, most of the lolly pop gang here can't relate, especially when you actually think you should "gasp" pay for something instead of waiting on the govmt dole.
Our current system costs all of us a lot more for the rest of us to pay for the "gov't dole" of people who can't afford heath insurance and go to the emergency room for a cold. If they had insurance, they might go to the doctor.
By the way, I pay for my health insurance. Only part, but I still pay. Why should I be taxed on top of it if I rarely use it, but have to have it? No thanks.
Terra - as is my understanding form the info you provided, you would only be taxed on the health care insurance provided to you from an employer, not what you paid for on your own. Almost everyone pays for at least part of their healthcare - it is just mostly subisdized by employers. If you don't pay for any part of it then you are already payingt axes on that because it is already considered income. There really isn't a good argument for not paying tax on employer provided healthcare since you are receiving a benefit.
You can criticize or diagree with the way I think healthcare should be set up, but all I described was essentially a streamlined universal healthcare system wiht the benefits of what they have in places like Canada, minus a number of the inefficiencies - something you have come out in the past as a proponnent of.
I wasn't addressing your comments, so calm down.
"Our current system costs all of us a lot more for the rest of us to pay for the "gov't dole" of people who can't afford heath insurance and go to the emergency room for a cold. If they had insurance, they might go to the doctor."
terra you are wrong, one estimate from the Lewin Group -that their healthcare would cost an additional 145 billion. If people came to view healthcare as someting that is "free" the complications would overwhelm the system-In which case prepare for a two tiered system (hoping that this isn't prevented by legal restrictions) or a significant decrease in quality of care.
Someone wise on both economics and medicine told me of the three points of view you can only have two:
access
comprehensiveness
manageable costs
as for "By the way, I pay for my health insurance. Only part, but I still pay. Why should I be taxed on top of it if I rarely use it, but have to have it? No thanks."
I would be ok with you or anyone not receiving care if you didn't pay in (the destitue on medicaid a notable exception) Unfortunately it is legally mandated that hospitals must treat everyone. Get this repealed then we can talk, until then yes you should be forced to pay in and yes you should be taxed on your total salary including benefits. I have a sneaking suspicion you will sing a completely different tune when you have kids or are older and requiring managed care.
but such is the hubris of the young and naive
but such is the hubris of the young and naive
Mike D., I lost some of the trees in the forest but mostly followed your response to me. I think we are very close to the same page.
I think that these items are mandatory to fix the HC problem:
1.) A goal of everyone covered by HC
2.) Elimination of waste - example- the "Federal case" billing that the patient receives after , say a visit to the hospital. Does anyoneone really know what your ins covers anymore.
3.) strict regulation of the rules. As in Canada, a good idea would be to make it illegal for an ins carrier with a legal obligation to pay to stall and duck/weave a bill as the patient receives threatening letters from the HC provider.
4.) Standardization of forms/ procedures (cuts waste)
5.) You add another
I was at the British Columbia Parliament last year and spoke to some persons about Canadas system. I will sum it up with: The Canadians (All, even business)) are happy with their system and they feel very , very sorry for us!
PS: dont believe the propaganda profferer by the Ins lobby about Canada's HC system.IT WORKS!
Another item:
To Fix Canadas HC problem, which was corruptively ruled by the Ins cabal, a few decades ago, Executive order of the Queen of England (What she orders - GOES) was necessary to break the corruptive and destructive cycle.
I think that type of bully orders will be necessary here in the USA also
Petey - there are just a lot of inefficiencies in the Canadian system (revolving around tax being collected to fund it from at least three different levels) and relatively high taxes used to pay for it. If we wanted to go toward a system like that, we would have the opportunity to circumvent/prevent those inefficiencies and higher taxes by going down a route similar to what I described - there woudl be a much bigger burden on insurance companies to manage their own risk and hence it would keep the costs lower and allow the more important focus to be on those people who are in dire need of healthcare assistance. Additionally, this way ther would still at least be an element of capitalism inherent as healthcare providers/insurers worked to find the most efficient means to handle and manage risk since that woudl really be their only way to make money vs. gouging employers.
I generally don't support socialistic ideas like this, as I am a much greater proponent of self-determination, but in this case, much like with the police, army, fire dept., public schools, etc., it seems to me that most everyone benefits from an improved healthcare platform.
Mike , do you know that all the provinces have different HC Plans. In BC a 62 year old woman , I talked to, pays $90/month for her policy.
Like I said before, beware of the propaganda about the Canadian system.
Have you asked any Canadians about their system?
In the US we can do even better that the sys to our North.
You hold the Ins Lobbyman - I will clip his noogies with a rusty catfood lid.
Dont hold your breath, my bet is that the US system will be fukkedup for a long long time.
good luck staffing it.
Petey - yes I have asked Canadiens and non-citizen residents alike about the system. Ive also done some fairly extensive research about it and how it is funded. There are a number of individuals happy with the current system there, but like I said, there are also tremendous inefficiencies which we could learn from and improve upon.
Good Mike, Me Too on the research.
Of course America's remedy would need to be somewhat different than Canada's model - but looking at other countries HC delivery systems is a very good start. Cutting thru the status quo propaganda is necessary also. Like I said - the Ins Lobby need castrated.
Me personally, I believe that the current US HC sys is trash and needs fixed NOW- but I am not very optimistic about fixing this abominable glacier of waste.
I would choose Canadas HC sys over our current one - lock, stock & barrel if given the yes /no option.
On a positive note: Our medical technology is absolutely No. 1 and could just shine if the delivery sys and all the waste & graft inherent were elimninated.
That would probably be win/win/win for the whole Nation.
Keep up the good fight Mike
Terra, great picture.
I knew you'd like that photo.
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