POST RETRACTED
In order to spare the site any further backlash and its readers further outrage I have taken down my most recent post. In it I joked that Tony Snow deserves his Cancer.I apologize to the staff, especially Kyle who had no knowledge of the post and any one who was offended by it.
Before I close the book on this, let me first say that I've been living for the past two years with a 12-year Cancer survivor and also my mom recently went through Chemo. So I'm not unfamiliar with the pain and suffering Cancer causes. But just because my loved ones suffered from the disease doesn't make me any more sympathetic towards Mr. Snow's suffering.
You may disagree with me, but it is my opinion that this administration fixed intelligence, openly lied to the American people and pushed us into a war of choice for the sake of their cronies' profits and their personal agendas. A war which has caused immeasurable pain and suffering to hundreds of thousands of people which they have zero compassion for.
So when I saw a touch of pain and suffering visit the administration's mouth piece I was far from sympathetic. I don't believe in Karma or Final Judgement, I do however think that the parties involved in this degree of public deceit, the selling of an unjust war, should personally reap what they've sown.
Anything that denies these individuals long, healthy, cooshie retirements in gated communities with well-groomed golf courses is good in my eyes. That is my opinion, for better or for worse. I should have been more sensitive though to all Cancer survivors in my delivery. For this, I apologize.
If there is one thing that I'll take away from this incident it's this:
We know that the public at-large suffers too from a serious disconnect when it comes to the pain and suffering of distant innocents. When we read about a market being bombed in Baghdad; when we hear about the torture of detainees; when we skim an article about a US soldier who lost his legs, we cannot fathom the pain and suffering being described to us. Liberal or Conservative, if we're honest with ourselves we'll admit that reading the morning paper over coffee, we're categorically desensitized.
The exception, as we learned today, is Cancer. Unlike roadside bombs, beheadings and sectarian killings, we've all had first-hand experience with the pain and suffering Cancer causes. I think that this is why the reaction to my post was so intense. Not because I made a joke about one man's ill health, but because I made a joke involving Cancer.
If Mr. Snow had been critically injured in a car accident and I had satirized the situation, I can't imagine that the response would have been as extreme. Hell, the entire nation, including Leno, satirized the poor guy that Cheney shot in the face.
In closing:
When two sports teams have an intense rivalry, and one of the team's coaches dies, both teams come together like family to pay their respects, realizing that matters of life and death are much bigger than any game. I think most people view this Snow situation in these terms.
Bob, we're talking about a man's life. A person with a wife and children who love him. This is bigger than any disagreements in partisan politics. Well politics is not sport. This is not some intellectual game between a red and blue debate team. The actions and deception of this administration have caused the real life pain, suffering and deaths of hundreds of thousands of people with wives and children who loved them no less than Mr. Snow's.
I sincerely apologize to all those who've been touched by Cancer who were upset by my post, but I cannot extend the slightest sympathy to a man whose livelihood is marginalizing and obscuring the suffering of multitudes.
By Robert - 3/27/2007
54 Comments:
Satire has its place this is not it.
fred,
Yes or No:
(1) Would I be out of line to celebrate/satirize the diagnosis of Cancer in say...OJ Simpson. A man who killed his wife and her lover in cold blood and then tried to profit off a book mocking the system's inability to bring him to justice?
(2) Would I be out of line to celebrate/satirize the diagnosis of Cancer in say...an unapologetic serial rapist and serial killer the likes of Jeffery Dahmer?
(2) Would I be out of line to celebrate/satirize the failing health of Osama bin Laden strapped into his dialysis machine?
Yes or No?
In the post below, your website partner has a post calling Republicans animals for claiming Edwards is using his wife's cancer as a political tool. And here you are doing the same thing, just reversed. Using Tony Snow's cancer as a tool to make fun of what you see as stupid, uneducted hicks who happen to support the policies of the administration.
I dont think you can compare Tony Snow to OJ, Dahmer, or OBL. You know I like you Bob, but this post in my opinion is in poor taste. I know it is meant to be funny, and I get the jokes contained in it, I just dont find funny.
Stupid
Ben,
How am I using Tony's Cancer as a political tool? How does this benefit myself or my side? Most Democrats will actually cringe at this post cause these types of commentaries arm Conservatives with priceless political ammo. Be happy.
And don't over analyse things: I'm just enjoying watching bad things happen to bad people for a change. There is a difference between exploiting some poor souls' disease and celebrating cosmic justice.
Let me clarify something else. I would never, ever celebrate/satirize any one's Cancer based on their beliefs, political or otherwise. Never. It is Tony Snow's actions, his active, intentional deceit of the American public that has contributed to the deaths of 3,000 US troops and 500,000 Iraqis. He profits from deception and clearly enjoys his job.
I agree with you, that it isn't fair to compare Snow to Simpson; Tony has much more blood on his hands.
And Ben,
In no way am I 'making fun of uneducated hicks who happen to support the policies of the administration.'
This is only about Mr. Snow, and my complete and utter lack of sympathy for him.
At least you are admitting it and not backing off it. You are happy he got cancer.
Please - "I agree with you, that it isn't fair to compare Snow to Simpson; Tony has much more blood on his hands." He has been WH spokesman since early 2006. It wasnt his decision to go to Iraq.
if you put Snow in the same class as OJ,Dahmer, and Osama then the converstaion is moot
He's the mouthpiece of this administration, not the leader of it.
fred,
I was working up to a point by starting at an extreme. The point was not that OJ, Dahmer and Osama are in the same class as Snow. Obviously they're not.
I wanted to know if your initial objection to my post was that we should never celebrate/satirize something as serious as Cancer. I asked these questions to see if you would concede that some figures don't deserve any degree of respect and that we would not be crossing a line by taking pleasure in their ailments.
After establishing with extreme examples that it does in fact depend on the person in question, I was going to try to pin-point where you think the line should be drawn between the touchables and the untouchables and finally why you think that Tony Snow is on the safe side.
Shall we continue?
OK. I agree that Snow is not in the same class as killers and rapists. Completely.
(He's in the class of the lawyer who makes loads of money defending killers & rapists that he knows are guilty.)
I have to agree that there is a line where the satire is acceptable. Where that line is drawn I quess is a personal descion. Perhaps we will leave it at that. Be very careful about your lawyer references or a particular contributor will become unhinged.
God I knew this was coming. I was hoping someone could show some restraint. Not gonna happen.
As someone who went through 7 months of chemo in 2004 and is still recovering, I can't tell you how fucking stupid this post is. Indefensible. As much as I despise Bush and his minions, including Tony Snow, I would never wish what I went through on anyone.
I don't give a flying fuck how irresponsible people like Coulter and Limbaugh are, it's the Left's job to rise above the fray if they hope to lead this country. Really Robert, as much as I enjoyed your other post.... fuck you and the horse you rode in on.
This post serves no purpose...
One other thing Robert, your comment about lawyers who defend killers and rapists " when they know they are guilty" is also incredibly ignorant. There are legal and constitutional guarantees called due process, the presumtion of innocence until proven guilty, and the right to legal representation...... precisely the kinds of rights Bushco are trying to infringe on with the Patriot Act. And so here you criticize those who would participate in the system. Jesus man, read your fucking posts before you hit publish.
Robert,
That wasnt who I had in mind when warning you about your lawyer comment. Robert I have to agree with you on this one. Yes, all people are entitled to due process but so often justice is circumvented by technicalities that have no bearing on justice. Recently the state appeals court denied a man's right to appeal because his lawyer failed ro appleal within the legal alloted time. Why? Because he says it was because the judge wrote the wrong amount of time he had to appeal the case. The judge was wrong and the lawyer should have known that the amount of time he had to make his appleal, it is basic legal procedure. Because they both screwed up he has no rights. This is a case of the legaql system dealing in arcane bulsjhit rather in justice. Sometimes it seems the "game" is more important than the defendent or victims
I liked the post. My gut reaction when I heard that Snow had cancer was, "oh well." This administration is a cancer on America. I don't hate republicans and political theory debates have their place. This administration is just full of terrible people who hate government and thereby hate America.
I don't mind seeing them feel pain and loss. They are truly bad people.
Fuck 'em.
I would not wish a disease on anyone. It just isn't right.
It is wrong to revel in anyones suffering-I don't buy your argument of cosmic justice. This is not a result of cause and effect. Take issue with his politics, but to celebrate in the misery (and cancer is a form of misery) of anyone speaks more about the person celebrating than the person suffering.
Your idea that karma or some other metaphysical rationale is an appropriate entity for dealing out punishment seems strange for someone who up to this point has championed the cause of logic and reasoned thought. Bob you are gonna get a ton of shit for this, and maybe that was your goal, but rightfully so.
Fred, you should have gone out on a high note and quit after your first post. Once again you blow a save in the 9th.
it's a shame that this may have been the first time someone visited the site and they see this garbage. I'm sure anyone would immediately write you off as whackos and never come back. It's a shame b/c I think you guys have some good thoughts
Really, really bad form. As a Dem, I cannot stand this administration & am no fan of Snow's. However, he is a human being, has a wife & kids that he loves & loves him, & no one deserves the diagnosis he just got. That family will likely lose their Dad sooner rather than later. I'm not sure how anyone can take joy in that...
While I also find this post in extremely poor taste I must admit that 1) I thought it was ironic given that just last week he made an encouraging comment re Elizabeth Edwards cancer; 2) I couldn't help but wonder if this would prevent future decreases in funding for cancer research. It is sad to think that most people don't think about cancer or work to find a cure until it happens to someone they care about.
Bob, I am just checking in today. I am with you, 100%. This is not satire, this is real life and a real situation that you reference. you nail it on the head: this is not some game. Bush & Company have LIED and want this war at any cost....but we have to sympathize for them?
Do i want bad things for him? no. do I feel sympathy for him, I guess. but MUST I feel sympathy for him....no.
but every person that has refused to back you (I think i am the only one) seems to be saying we MUST feel sympathy for Snow.
i don't think so. bob's comparisons on the damage that Snow-type people have done to this country is accurate. so to tell me I have to feel bad for him is horse-shit.
(note: i do feel bad for him to an extent. but not as bad as about 1000 other people that i can name right now. basically, i find reasons to feel bad for a lot of people, just about everyone.....but he is near the bottom of the list)
Well, I don't think that was much of an apology. For the record, I don't think you needed to apologize(the only one who thinks that apparently), but if your gonna apologize, apologize. Don't say, I'm sorry YOU were offended, but I was right.
Anyways - the disconnect people have with reality blows my mind. When 40 Iraqis are killed in a day it gets a paragraph in the story about Iraq that makes the paper for the day. If a few British people get killed in a subway its 24 hour a day coverage for a week. I guess I've never understood the idea that a person with darker skins life is worth less then a true Americans. Its a fucking joke.
I don't care if Snow gets real sick. Just because he is an American in a suit doesn't mean I should care more about him than the thousands of people's lives that the administration he works for has destroyed.
What Bob did with this post pales in comparison to the things republicans have done to people like Max Cleveland. Bob made a joke - they destroy lives and careers for political gain.
right on tim. i forgot about your earlier comment. we are the only pro-bob people at this moment, i guess.
Chuck and Tim,
Thanks for the words of support although I understand other readers' criticism on this one.
Tim,
I revised the retraction to try to stress my apology to Cancer survivors. I don't think I can say in good faith that I feel anything but contempt for Mr. Snow though.
The Bush Administration deserves to be tried and imprisoned for war crimes, but they probably don't deserve cancer. That punishment doesn't fit the crime. And no, that's not sympathy. I don't wish ill of anyone, but these guys do deserve to serve time for what they've done to our country and our planet.
Maybe my post on kittens will lighten the mood. Although it's not a happy situation either.
This isn't about sympathy for Tony Snow. It's about a complete lack of class and maturity from some people who imagine themselves occupying some moral highground when it comes to their ideological opponents. It's about kicking someone when they're down. If this came from the likes of Coulter or Limbaugh, who would be surprised? But this isn't Fox is it? This is a "liberal" blog... you know... the good guys....
Anyone who has endured my posts knows that I have nothing but the deepest contempt for the Bush Administration. They deserve the worst legal punishment we can manage under our system. But this argument that the Bushies did this or said that so they deserve whatever is somewhere around the level of a 4th grader's rationale.
But really what gets me more than anything about this post and some of the responses, is a great sense of disappointment that in the end, some folks here value partisanship and revenge above any real sense of the human condition. These are people who's ideologies very much overlap my own, but when push comes to shove, it's the Shia vs. Sunni mentality. Maybe the terrorists really have followed us home. Look in the mirror.
And Tim, who the hell is Max Cleveland?
he means max clelalnd frmer senator form georgia,
I wouldn't wish Cancer on anyone. Now, as for torture, maybe. Either way it boils down to Chuck being able to express his feelings for this person. If Chuck hates this person, then I guess Chuck is free to say what he pleases. Doesn't mean we need to agree or take offense to it. Last I checked this is a free speech forum. It seems too many people on this site are looking for personal battles.
So torture doesn't bother you much more than someone looking for personal opinion battles?
Are there blog sites out there that prohibit free speech ?
What I'm trying to do is keep the Left from sinking into the same talk radio mentality that afflicts the Right.... the whole Karl Rove, "Valerie Plame was fair game" thing... the Ann Coulter, John Edwards
wink, wink is a faggot issue. If the Left can't be better than that, then their whole moral outrage posture is just so much bullshit.
The torture comment was sarcasm.
Maybe Chuck should have said what he wanted to say in a different manner.
Bob,
Tony Snow hasn't even been in his position for a year. He didn't "push us into a war of choice." He was hosting a radio show at that time. The other thing is the last person to set policy is Press Secretary. He's just the mouthpiece. He's the communicator not the policy maker. If your beef is with the policy than it would make more sense to go after the policy makers. Overall, I would say Snow has done a pretty good job as Press Secretary.
I agree with Mencken: "It's about a complete lack of class and maturity from some people who imagine themselves occupying some moral high ground when it comes to their ideological opponents."
chuck did not start this
This post has been removed by the author.
Kyle, I understand the kind of blog you are trying to run here and I understand why the post was removed(even though it didn't bother me).
But on the topic of Snow's culpability - he knew what this administration was up to before he joined it and if he didn't agree with the policies he wouldn't have taken the job.
And as the Daily Show spends plenty of time pointing out, Snow is hardly a great press secretary. He's a jerk at best.
Bob, I see your point on the apology. Sorry.
Bob, I know how you feel about Snow...please dont take your retraction too seriously.
I admire your opinions and all your writings..the Snow post was just a mistake...your work is still top[s in my eyes.
Personnally: I care more about a run over squirrel on I77 than I do about Tony Snow's health and welfare.
Your Pal Petey
Is it over yet?
[peeking out from bunker]
Nope, I haven't had my say!!
Bob, I don't really mind your post. I've never understood why people get so easily offended. Why does it make people angry when you simply express the thoughts in your head?
That said, you had to know that you would get this kind of response. Although I don't believe in individuals getting "offended" I do believe that it is fair game for your readers to pash harsh judgement on you, and question your credibility.
You just had a post where we discussed the humanistic roots of morality, and I think your morals were fleeting when you wrote your post. In no way does Snow's cancer help ease any of the suffering in the world. He may have a despicable job, but for that he deserves more pity than hatred.
I will confess that there are a few individuals for whom I'd find pleasure in their suffering, but I see that as a fault in my personality, and not one that I would wish to flaunt over the net. Such emotional thinking is dangerous, and lacking in logic.
You're still the best writer on the site, and that it is great to have you back.
ps would you really celebrate OJ getting cancer?
OK. I agree that Snow is not in the same class as killers and rapists. Completely.
(He's in the class of the lawyer who makes loads of money defending killers & rapists that he knows are guilty.)
Ahh...more of the left's ugly head is reared. Bobby has a problem with people who make money. Especially attorneys. I take it John Edwards falls into this category, or is he exempt because he was an ambulance chaser?
Bob...you posted what you deeply felt inside. A bad joke? Seriously dude...Kerry tried the same lame ass excuse. Are all of you guys on the left incapable of pulling off a decent joke? I think not. The kind, compassionate left loves everyone...as long as they agree with what you think and do as you say. It's truly disgusting. Your post almost took this to the level of the Daily Kos and the DU. At least Kyle showed some class.
You actually became a subject of a post at my blog. Congratulations.
This administration is a cancer on America.
I could say the same about you, Timmy. If you don't want to root for the home team anymore, get the fuck out of the stadium. The '60's are over. They didn't work. All you have left are aging hippies who made some cash because of Reaganomics. And you have a group that grew up in the '80's saying "God...never let me look or act like a hippy." You're kids, assuming you are allowed to mate, will think the same thing one day.
I don't care if Snow gets real sick. Just because he is an American in a suit doesn't mean I should care more about him than the thousands of people's lives that the administration he works for has destroyed.
Assuming you work and pay taxes, you helped pay for it. Unless you haven't filed since 2003 out of principle, I suggest you are a problem. Or aren't you THAT convicted to your ramblings, knowing you'd be Bubba's little bitch in jail? That's conviction, Tim. Way to go.
If the Left can't be better than that, then their whole moral outrage posture is just so much bullshit.
Amen, Mencken. It's grade-A, corn-fed bullshit. Are you just figuring that out now? There are good people on the left (I'm in love with one of them) and good people on the right...neither "side" has a monoply on morals. Just read the Daily Kos, and you'll know what I'm talking about.
And as the Daily Show spends plenty of time pointing out, Snow is hardly a great press secretary. He's a jerk at best.
Uh...the Daily Show? Great reference there, Tim. News at it's best.
Is it over yet?
[peeking out from bunker]
Depends if you're done being stupid.
Jeff,
After this rough week, I wouldn't celebrate if Cheney, loading a Santa-sack of missing reconstruction cash onto his yacht, fell and broke a hip.
PS I don't really have anything against OJ. I just tried to pick 3 people I thought fred might be willing to wish ill of. It was a shot in the dark.
This is the last thing I am going to say on it, because it has been beaten down. No one was demanding you feel symapthy for Tomy Snow. I sure wasn't. I reread all of the negative comments to the post. We just said it wasn't funny to make fun of a guy or (anyone for that matter) getting cancer. No one is calling for you to show sympathy for anyone - you certianly dont have to. That wasnt where the complaints and objections were coming from. I dont think it is fair that people are now here trying to say that we demanded you feel sympathetic, because that certianly wasnt the case. I just felt it was in poor taste overall.
My I have the last word?
If all are truly compassionate towards their fellow man, Tony Snow - cancer,whooping cough, Tbi's etc. .....then we should all be praying that our soldiers come home ASAP-- sparing them from horror of Iraq harms way
Bob, you can die a happy man now...your lives goal is complete...you made Russie's blog.
Russ...if you wanna root for the home team, move to China.
--Hu Jintao
bob, i agree with you 100%. who gives a fuck if some war mongering thug who lies to the american people everyday has cancer? thousands of people get cancer everyday. i don't know them personally so i don't care. it's ok for republicans whores like ann coulter to ridicule edwards wife but if some republican gets cancer it's a sin for anyone to say who gives a shit
russ, every post you write makes me ill. you are the definition of a brain washed retarded monkey who does whatever he sees on the t.v. if the whistle blows once suck your own dick. if the whistle blows twice suck the presidents dick
that russ guy writes gibberish and to try to deal with everything he says would be waste of time. i root for the home team. the problem is bush isn't on it. he's on the corporate team. bush doesn't give two fucks about america. i do. this is my last comment ever dealing with you russ. unless you get cancer that is - then i'll make a joke.
Post a Comment
<< Home