Oct 17 - 46/45 - McCain +01
The Iraq War Supplemental Vote
The results are in and Obama and Clinton voted nay. They joined 12 other Senators in voting against H.R. 2206. In casting their vote against the supplemental, Hillary noted they also voted against funding to help those sickened in the aftermath of 9/11, additional relief for Katrina and Rita victims, homeland security funds for high-threat cities like New York City, resources to protect parts of New York affected by recent flooding, $650 million for the State Children's Health Insurance Program, and the first federal minimum wage increase in ten years. (shaking my head)80 Senators voted for the bill including newly elected Senators Sherrod Brown, Jim Webb, John Tester, Claire McCaskill, and Bob Casey all voted yea. I found that interesting because many have sited the mandate of the 2006 election as the reason to vote against this bill. It seems that those Senators who got that mandate believed otherwise. In his explanation for why he also voted for the bill in the House, Democrat Jack Murtha hit the nail on the head:
"Some have suggested that since the president refuses to compromise, Democrats should refuse to send him anything. I disagree. There is a point when the money for our troops in Iraq will run out, and when it does, our men and women serving courageously in Iraq will be the ones who will suffer, not this president."I agree with Jack Murtha. I am frustrated with Barack and Hillary. Their votes accomplished nothing and will be heavy baggage going forward. I need the weekend to think it over. Timing of this issue couldn't be worse seeing as how it is almost Memorial Day. I get concerned when certain elements of my party seem to be exerting too much influence. I remember the last time MoveOn.org was the spokes-527 for the Democratic Party was 2004. That turned out great.
By Kyle - 5/25/2007
23 Comments:
I agree with Jack Murtha also.
These "bills" are so loaded with convoluted garbage, bribes, pork - you name it....its virtually to judge where a congressman.woman stands based on their votes.
It is absolutely the darkest side of our Govt system to witness our troops- beloved kids of my family , neighbors and fellow citizens, being booted around as political footballs. Something to think over this Memorial Day.
George W. Bush is akin to the alcoholic/drug dependent who codependantly destroys the whole family.
But as Murtha says, it would be far, far a worse thing to turn off the water on our troops to stop the madness.
God help us find the path out
Please observe a moment of silence at 3 PM Monday Memorial Day, attend a service, & maybe take a Veteran out to lunch or at least tell him/her that you are grateful for their Patriotic Sacrifice.
Semper Fi
Also noteworthy is that Barack and Hilary's votes were cast after the funding bill already had enough votes to pass.
I assume they decided to position themselves more for the primaries than for the general election, but I don't think this will hurt them to much though because I the public isn't gonna fall for the whole unpatriotic thing again. Bush played it out.
Good luck with that Rudy.
Kyle, you seem bothered that people voted against the bill?
Minimum wage and all that stuff is nice, but what about responsible governance, by passing the katrina bill and minimum wage in more stand-along bills?
Further, Murtha is a good voice about the war....until now. The money is not going to run out this week. or next week. or next month. So there is no excuse for not putting more pressure on Bush. NO EXCUSE.
And the only thing that bothers me about Hillary/Obama waited so long to speak out.
Democrats are in the drivers seat. The public likes and believes them more. Are you going to just worry about the fraud GOP calling them names??????
You think people are going to buy that Hillary is anti-minimum wage or anti-Katrina or anti-the other stuff????????
No way.
And how about the fact that the GOP can now say to the Democrats in 2008 that "if they don't like the war so much, why do they vote for it"
these 80 senators are now aligned with Bush. Sick.
and jack murtha is all about the pork, so that is what probably bribed him.
damn, i am mad about this.
kyle, we obviously disagree on this. I would like you to address my opinion that they should have sent Bush a dozen more bills.
1) send him the auto withdrawal in 2008.
2) send him the bill saying we leave by 2010.
3) send him the bill saying we leave by 2015.
4) send him one that says we don't do permanent bases.
5) send him one that says "we would like to leave by 2010"
6) and so one.....
Instead, they did...
1) a porkybill that had a 2008 timeline
2) a blank check
If they were going to lay down so quickly, why not at least take the pork out of the first bill, so they can look good???? It is ridiculous and the worst strategy ever.
I don't know how you can defend it. It makes me feel embarrassed that i believed in these guys.
if the Dems really cared about this, they would keep Congress in session the entire holiday and keep passing the bills.
that woudld be the way to break some people. Filibuster their vacation.
but the good ole boys have to go celebrate "Memorial Day".....ironically.
Saddest item is the legislative system that provides a bill with the contents of a loogged and filthy sewer.
Is it possible for Congress to produce a bill for one purpose ?(funding/nonfunding the Iraq mess)
I believe what Murtha says about harming the troops - but do not doubt that he is a pork swiller like all the rest.
The whole mess has a Godzilla life of its own now - fasten your seatbelts
You can't just blow off the minimum wage increase like it was a piece of legislation to name a bridge. It's going to help a lot of folks out... folks you claim to care about.
Even though the wheels are coming off the Bush Administration, he still has a lot of momentum and supporters. The Dems in Congress still don't have the numbers to enforce their ideology.
This bill was a Sophie's Choice from the getgo. Overturning the Bush legacy is going to take years of hard work. It's not going to turn on one vote on a bullshit piece of legislation.
Don't turn the TV off yet Chuck, there's a lot more game to be played.
It's hilarious how finallt these "help katrina victoms", "help flood victims" "raise minimum wage" finally come up but they're tied in with further supporting the war. I don't buy into the "we need to help the troops" arguments because in the end, the only thing that will help them in my opinion is getting them out of there. No money means them leaving earlier and thats doing them a true favor. I believe all of these Senators were elected to change things and nothing really has changed with the war. Sure Bush vetoes everything they send but why can't the Democrats play the same game. Atleast show the people who voted them in there they are trying. Not just giving up like this. It's so aggrovating watching Bush win time and time again. Its sure great we're gonna get 2 more dollars on the minimum wage but the cost of war is all that extra 2 dollars will be going to in taxes. Not to mention gas prices will probably continue to rise, supporting Bush and all his cronies who has stock in the gas companies.
McCain and Romney scare no one. I would love to see a debate between McCain and Romney and Obama and Clinton. Clearly Obama and Clinton are so much smarter and while I was watching NBC Nightly News tonight Mitt Romney says that the 2 of them are "unreliable". Unreliable? Mitt changes his mind about gay marriage every day, talk about unreliable.
Obama and Clinton made the right decision. They did what every Democrat shold've done. They're not playing politics. They did what they said they would do, try and stop the war.
Good reminder Petey,
Sad to say but it took 9/11 to make me realize the thanks and respect I owed all those that have served to allow me to do what I do. I know where I will be at noon on Memorial day.
all the help to the gulf coast and minimum wage increase are GREAT. but we could have gotten that stuff anyway.
Anon: ALL politicians "play" politics= dont set yourself up with unqualified faith in one only to be quite dissapointed / but somehow balance that with faith in your Nation.
Fred: decent people like you keep us strong, all in my group hate war but we believe that our strong military serves to deter, 80% in my group are opposed to the Iraq war and the other 15% only disagree about how/when to pullout. Lets all face it - we cant stay threre forever - unless we are insane. I think only Chickenhawks are fully Gung Ho about it.
I am only here by the grace of God or pure luck, whatever may be-- so I try to remember those who didnt make it and live a full life with their aspirations in my heart and on my shoulders.
On a + note in Congress Friday:
A Congressman on the news stated that he believes that the underlying motivation in DC (Repubs included) is the realization that we MUST find a way to disengage/withdraw from Iraq. I think even Bush admin knows this.
Like I said " Fasten Your Seat Belts."
I am beginning to wonder if this "shutting off funding for the troops" (Murtha) argument is total crap.
Thanks for the input from all of you
3PM Monday - Be There
Chuck,
Lighten up. It isnt about princi-
ple or even what is best for the people at times. You cant govern unless you get elected. It used to be that politicans found them-
selves forsaking their "beliefs" during the election year to be able to garner a needed majority to be able to institute their polices after the election. Those days are gone. As soon as the election day is over the media starts the new election cycle. Actually thoughtful debate on the issues and analysis of the potential consequences are not what grabs the public. Division, breathless comment on the last stilted polls, and the Dem. vs. Rep horse race is what sells the
tickets. The name of the game is to win through gerrymandering, being the incumbent and MONEY. Standing on principle isnt going to win you anything.
One example: CNN, Fox etc. has being void of any substantive issues on the long
term impact of the "amnesty" bill or the fact that the last immigration bill passed was not enforced. What do they spend most of the time talking about? What impact this "law" will have on the parties. It is all about how an action will affect the relaitve strength of a party.
As long as I am handing out useless advice. I dont have a problem with what Murtha said but if you hope to influence others using Murtha may not help. Many of us oppose Murtha not as much for what he says as who he is. It is much like me saying George Bush said. It is DOA at that minute although there may be some truth to the statement(although with Bush it is hard to imagine). It is the old the message is destroyed by the messenger.
Quiz for the day:
What do conservatives and liberals have in common?
Answer: disqust-- Their party has abandonded them and there is nothing they can do about it.
Chuck, you and I share the same goal to end this war. We just disagree over the best strategy to make that happen. I am bothered that our front runner candidates cast these votes because I don't think this baggage will help them down the road. Not to be cliche, but this process is a marathon and not a sprint. I feel like Obama and Clinton blew some political capital unnecessarily. I hope that we continue to work the legislative process to advance our agenda. I just don't think this bill was the right one. I hope that we do get tougher and my understanding is there are measures in place in the bill where the President and generals will report to Congress by September and things will be reevaluated. I hope that between now and that time that Congress will debate and move forward those issues you mentioned.
Anonymous, as Murtha said, this bill would have made the troops pay and not our President. That is bad policy and bad politics in my opinion. I hope that Barack and Hillary's votes energizes you and other Democrats because it is a set back for our prospects for 2008 and did nothing to change the course of the war.
The other thing I would remind everyone is that the Democrats do not have the 60 votes they need in the Senate to over ride the President so they are limited in their power. We need to appeal to moderate Republicans who also see this war on the wrong track if we want change. If we continue to try stunts that appeal to a small number of Democrats then nothing will change and we can all agree that is the worst possible outcome.
"The other thing I would remind everyone is that the Democrats do not have the 60 votes they need in the Senate to over ride the President so they are limited in their power."
That is the alpha and the omega of this situation and everybody needs to accept that for the time being.
Kyle,
I guess I don't buy Murtha's logic that it's the troops who suffer if we withhold funding.
I mean who suffers if we stay fully funded till 2010 losing 3 soldiers a day?
If I was a soldier I honestly think I'd prefer some short term suffering to see an end to this occupation.
Wouldn't you?
Before he died Vonnegut said:
"Human beings are chimpanzees who get crazy drunk on power. By saying that our leaders are power-drunk chimpanzees, am I in danger of wrecking the morale of our soldiers fighting and dying in the Middle East? Their morale, like so many bodies, is already shot to pieces. They are being treated, as I never was, like toys a rich kid got for Christmas."
I say...end this tragedy.
Apologize to the troops for putting them in harms way unnecessarily. Honor them for their service. Start to bring them home asap.
Those soldiers who see that this war was a mistake, who want to get the hell out of the desert, will understand that we used the purse strings to bring closure to this bloody occupation. And that we did it in their best interests. That we did it because this administration left us no choice.
Salute to KV, great quote about the rich kid's toys.
& also the fact that Bush and his senator pips have an veto override overridden.
Its a fact that the soldier in Iraq wishes to go home & he probably does not give a flying shit about the mechanism that produces that result
chuck, i agree with you 100%
to piggyback Chuck's list...
7) send him the bill that closes Guantanamo Bay
We agree with chuck. It is amazing that the Democrats do not have better professional politicians than it appears. An 80-14 vote in the senate for the war is a disgrace.
Post a Comment
<< Home