Don't know what NAMBLA is? Shame on you for not watching The Daily Show. It's the North American Man-Boy Love Association. Go ahead click the link, it's all-too real.
All jokes aside, this is the tip of a philosophical iceberg which has just really surfaced in the last 30 years. As our geneticists dig deeper, there will no doubt be a time when not only will the human genome be mapped, but decoded.
[Man in white coat points at plastic model of double helix] "Zis here is zee gene responsible for male pattern baldness. Over here is zee violent disposition one. Zat pink one? [man in white coat leans in, whispers] Zat is zee one responsible for Man-Boy love."
So the question is: if we can prove that a person is genetically predisposed to criminal behavior will we as a society treat them differently? Will this suffice as an excuse, whole or partial, in the eyes of judges and juries?
Every law we have is intended to check people's natural behaviors. There's no need to pass laws to stop people from doing things they have no inclination to do.
Just because someone3 is wired in a way that causes them to have an anti-social tendency does not mean they MUST act upon that tendency. If serving on a jury, i will not care that a person's genes incline her/him to be a pedophile. I will hold her/him accountable for acting upon that desire.
Menk, This might be a stretch, but that kind of reminds me of how we treat "hate crimes." Where if you stab someone to death because you hate their sexual orientation you get a more severe sentence than if you stab someone to death simply because you can't stand their incessant farting.
I have never understood hate crime logic.
I can imagine courts applying the same silly logic to genetic dispositions. Not necessarily giving those with them a free ride, but those without them a harsher punishment (which, all things being relative, is giving those with them a lighter sentence).
And will those with these extreme, violent genetic dispositions be forced to drive around with red license plates or go door to door when they move into a new house?
Won't the neighborhood have the right to know, in the name of public safety, that they have a high risk individual down the street?
Depending on where I've lived over the years, I've viewed a number of my neighbors as high risk for a variety of reasons. The latest is the jackass two doors down who hosts a drunken 4th of July party every year firing off weapons grade fireworks into the wooded ravine behind our houses and onto our roofs.
Another big issue that this ties into is "age of consent." After searching around the NAMBLA site, I found their proposed age of consent:
Birth.
They are completely opposed to the idea of an age of consent. In other words, a man and a baby could have sex as long as the baby "seemed receptive." This is completely fucked up, clearly.
But in a world where most kids are engaging in sex long before the age of consent, I'm not so sure that a 30 year old who has completely consensual sex with a 17 year old should be labeled as some form of rapist, (whether that sex is straight or gay) while a 60 year old who has consensual sex with an 20 year old (Billy Joel?) is given Hefner-esc high-fives.
I think in particular about those cases where the 6' 4" high school sophomore has sex with his lonely female teacher. Who is the victim here? He's no baby. Should she be tried as some sex criminal / rapist? I just don't think so.
So... I do believe that the issue of the "age of consent" is one that needs rethinking. Maybe the idea of a single age, which is the demarcation line between rape and in-the-clear sex needs to be thrown out. Either way, you can be sure that no sane politician would ever touch the issue of decriminalizing consensual sex with a ten foot pole.
Robert, I agree the whole idea of hate crimes is absurd. The real driving force behind it is for the Fed. government to have more power and some of our leaders to use this concept for their social engineering Here is how absurd it can become. In New York a man was charged with a hate crime for luring a man to his apartment then attacking him and robbing him. Where is the hate crime? Because he lured the man through a gay chatline to come to his apartment. Because the victim was gay it was automatically tried as a hate crime. The judge determined it was a hate crime and here is the punch line-the attacker was also gay. The judge's logic escaped me but it appeared he was creating the need for a protected group much like the need for endangered species laws.
robert, You seem to view this man-boy thing as a gentic question with possible criminal implications. Once again European society is far ahead of us. In The Netherlands there is the NVD (Charity, Freedom,Diversity) Party. Not only do they champion Man-Boy love but freedom in all areas including consensual sex between people and animals. When I asked my cat if she has ever had or considered having sex with a human she told me it was none of my business.
Fred, Honestly, if some hillbilly wants to bang his sheep, and the sheep don't suffer, I could care one way or the other. (I have no idea how receptive sheep are to human advances).
If I'm a sheep and my choices are being Billy-Joe's sweetheart twice a week or getting a bolt through my head and hacked up into lamb chops, you'd better believe I'd be shakin' that wooly ass.
Oct 17 - 46/45 - McCain +01
23 Comments:
Don't know what NAMBLA is? Shame on you for not watching The Daily Show. It's the North American Man-Boy Love Association. Go ahead click the link, it's all-too real.
All jokes aside, this is the tip of a philosophical iceberg which has just really surfaced in the last 30 years. As our geneticists dig deeper, there will no doubt be a time when not only will the human genome be mapped, but decoded.
[Man in white coat points at plastic model of double helix] "Zis here is zee gene responsible for male pattern baldness. Over here is zee violent disposition one. Zat pink one? [man in white coat leans in, whispers] Zat is zee one responsible for Man-Boy love."
So the question is: if we can prove that a person is genetically predisposed to criminal behavior will we as a society treat them differently? Will this suffice as an excuse, whole or partial, in the eyes of judges and juries?
Unlike pleading insanity or pointing to childhood abuse, these genetic predispositions would be (at least theoretically) indisputable.
Every law we have is intended to check people's natural behaviors. There's no need to pass laws to stop people from doing things they have no inclination to do.
Just because someone3 is wired in a way that causes them to have an anti-social tendency does not mean they MUST act upon that tendency. If serving on a jury, i will not care that a person's genes incline her/him to be a pedophile. I will hold her/him accountable for acting upon that desire.
Would criminals without a genetic predisposition as an excuse become a suspect class?
Menk,
This might be a stretch, but that kind of reminds me of how we treat "hate crimes." Where if you stab someone to death because you hate their sexual orientation you get a more severe sentence than if you stab someone to death simply because you can't stand their incessant farting.
I have never understood hate crime logic.
I can imagine courts applying the same silly logic to genetic dispositions. Not necessarily giving those with them a free ride, but those without them a harsher punishment (which, all things being relative, is giving those with them a lighter sentence).
And will those with these extreme, violent genetic dispositions be forced to drive around with red license plates or go door to door when they move into a new house?
Won't the neighborhood have the right to know, in the name of public safety, that they have a high risk individual down the street?
Depending on where I've lived over the years, I've viewed a number of my neighbors as high risk for a variety of reasons. The latest is the jackass two doors down who hosts a drunken 4th of July party every year firing off weapons grade fireworks into the wooded ravine behind our houses and onto our roofs.
Another big issue that this ties into is "age of consent." After searching around the NAMBLA site, I found their proposed age of consent:
Birth.
They are completely opposed to the idea of an age of consent. In other words, a man and a baby could have sex as long as the baby "seemed receptive." This is completely fucked up, clearly.
But in a world where most kids are engaging in sex long before the age of consent, I'm not so sure that a 30 year old who has completely consensual sex with a 17 year old should be labeled as some form of rapist, (whether that sex is straight or gay) while a 60 year old who has consensual sex with an 20 year old (Billy Joel?) is given Hefner-esc high-fives.
I think in particular about those cases where the 6' 4" high school sophomore has sex with his lonely female teacher. Who is the victim here? He's no baby. Should she be tried as some sex criminal / rapist? I just don't think so.
So... I do believe that the issue of the "age of consent" is one that needs rethinking. Maybe the idea of a single age, which is the demarcation line between rape and in-the-clear sex needs to be thrown out. Either way, you can be sure that no sane politician would ever touch the issue of decriminalizing consensual sex with a ten foot pole.
Robert,
I agree the whole idea of hate crimes is absurd. The real driving force behind it is for the Fed. government to have more power and some of our leaders to use this concept for their social engineering
Here is how absurd it can become. In New York a man was charged with a hate crime for luring a man to his apartment then attacking him and robbing him. Where is the hate crime? Because he lured the man through a gay chatline to come to his apartment. Because the victim was gay it was automatically tried as a hate crime. The judge determined it was a hate crime and here is the punch line-the attacker was also gay. The judge's logic escaped me but it appeared he was creating the need for a protected group much like the need for endangered species laws.
Fred,
By that logic, if a gay man commits suicide is it a hate crime?
robert,
You seem to view this man-boy thing as a gentic question with possible criminal implications. Once again European society is far ahead of us. In The Netherlands there is the NVD (Charity, Freedom,Diversity) Party. Not only do they champion Man-Boy love but freedom in all areas including consensual sex between people and animals. When I asked my cat if she has ever had or considered having sex with a human she told me it was none of my business.
Robert,
That was a good one. I suggest you ask the judge.
Fred,
Honestly, if some hillbilly wants to bang his sheep, and the sheep don't suffer, I could care one way or the other. (I have no idea how receptive sheep are to human advances).
If I'm a sheep and my choices are being Billy-Joe's sweetheart twice a week or getting a bolt through my head and hacked up into lamb chops, you'd better believe I'd be shakin' that wooly ass.
robert, i would venture to guess that the gay suicide would be a "self-hate" crime...
pppp
oops goofed that up
This is a TEST ---it is only a TEST
Great Quote in the article:
"However, Dr Cantor stressed the latest study did not suggest that paedophiles could not be held criminally responsible for their actions."
He said: "Not being able to choose your sexual interests doesn't mean you can't choose what you do."
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