Oct 17 - 46/45 - McCain +01
I Don't Y Huckabee
The original picture in this post was replaced.
After watching Meet the Press today with Mike Huckabee, I am sick to my stomach; this man absolutely scares me to death. Here are the highlights:
"Faith doesn't just influence me, it really defines me" (from TV ad).
"We didn't do tent revivals on the grounds of the capitol" (defending his "separation of church and state" policy as Governor).
"I feel homosexuality is an aberrant, unnatural and sinful lifestyle" (comparing homosexuality to pedophilia, sadomasochism, and necrophilia as deviant behaviors).
"If you take the life and suction out the pieces of an unborn child for no reason than its inconvenience to the mother, I don't think you've lived up to your Hippocratic Oath of doing no harm" (regarding the criminalization of abortion in the US).
I don't know if I'd feel better if he was the nominee so that the Democratic candidate looks sane, or if I'd prefer to lose the general to another R a little less crazy. Your thoughts?
By Annie - 12/30/2007
30 Comments:
If I was in the mood to defend Huckabee I'd point out he's a Baptist and not a Catholic as Hitler was. My mother is Catholic and she's not a Nazi so I'm not sure what the point of the photo was.
That said, the church was simply a prop for Hitler and the Vatican went along merrily for the ride. Huckabee on the other hand actually believes the dogma he craps out. Gotta give him points for that.
I'm a self-proclaimed anti-theist and Richard Dawkins is one of my favorite authors. It is hard to find someone who has been more critical of the church since puberty than me.
And yet...
My skin crawls when I see Romney talk about torture, or hear Giuliani invoke 9/11. Somehow it does not crawl when I listen to Huckabee talk about religion. I think he's the genuine article, a regular guy who would do his best to make America better for average Americans. I don't agree with him on policy at all, but I don't question his character or motivation (watching him defend himself civilly against Romney).
So he doesn't make me sick.
That said, the religious dogma is too much for me to vote for him even over a Democrat that I despise. So I will go on record now and say that I would not vote for Huckabee over Hillary.
In this scenario I would probably cast a protest vote. (On the Diebold machines can you still write in a candidate?)
I will also go on record and say that any Hitler / Huckabee comparison is way out of line. I'm not sure how the picture fits with the story at all.
A Politician professing a divine mission from God?
Old Jewish shopkeeper enduring waning business: "Oy, we need a GIMICK"
Olim habeas eorum pecuniam, numquam eam reddis: prima regula quaesitus - Once you have their money, you never give it back: the 1st rule of acquisiton
He may be sincere about his religion...
But I think of the local banker, many years ago, who used to keep a bible open on his desk all the while you were getting the WORST deal of your life from this guy!
Personnally, I am sick of "religious" types governing for Jesus.
Bombing for Jesus pisses me even more
I say if they want to do their Christian Duty - Go visit the sick, clothe the naked, feed the hungry and donate all that DAMN PAC money to the poor and then slide on thru that eye of that needle.
Annie: Google "Godwin's Law"
Oh Mencken, Gimme a break-- I'm not suggesting your mother was a Nazi or that Huckabee is Hitleresque. I'm merely saying that it makes me really nervous to put political responsibility in the hands of those who believe they receive divine intervention.
Religious influence, spirituality, strong morals, and solid values are attractive qualities in a presidential candidate; what is unattractive, even frightening, is when a potential president condemns all citizens that haven't accepted a similar religious platform.
If Huckabee really wants to help the needy and lift mankind all he has to do his denounce his fatih and vote Democratic.
Dear secular progressives,
this country may be a hypocritical hellhole or any other negative defintion you prefer. Having said that I am at loss to understand what the politically correct crowd's vision is. I have watched with fascination the slow but steady elimination of so many of the traditional norms within our culture and the reversal of the (yes it has not been as successful as is necessary)concept of many into one. What I fear is taking its place is a society that is based on the doctrine of "show me the money". I understand this is not the goal of the secular progressives but the best intentions often have unintended consequences.
I'm disgusted by the use of the Hitler picture. Hitler comparions are just thrown around now adays when talking about our leaders (ie G.W. Bush and Huckabee). I think it's time we stop comparing our elected officials to the most evil mn in modern history. It really takes away from any point you are trying to make because I dismiss your opinion b/c you make sucg a ridiclas comparison.
Also don't claim that's not what you were trying to do. Why the hell else would you have posted the pic??
Annie you're busted. You could have made your point without the Hitler photo, even though it's a pretty good one.
Wow; I started with what I thought would be a post on "the lesser of two evils"-- meaning how scared are you of Mike Huckabee. His foreign policy (and especially) his social policy stances scare the crap out of me. Moreover, I don't think I'd need to go out on a limb to say that if elected he would cram his beliefs into his policy.
I'm most scared of the sincerity in his convictions.
So, I changed the picture. I'm not back-pedaling. I just want to be clear that the discussion here is on Huckabee's candidacy and the potential religious influence on his presidency, and NOT on a comparison of Gov. Huckabee and Adolph Hilter.
I'm sorry if I offended anyone by using the earlier picture.
Huckabee offended me by putting Homosexuals and sadomachasists in the same category.
I watched Huckabee on MTP. His best quality is that he can talk about ideas typically reserved for the far right in the nicest way. In his interview with Russert, he had a portion where he talked about completely banning abortion and "sanctioning" doctors who performed it.
MR. RUSSERT: But you would punish the doctor.
GOV. HUCKABEE: I think if a doctor knowingly took the life of an unborn child for money, and that's why he was doing it, yeah, I think you would, you would find some way to sanction that doctor. I don't know that you'd put him in prison, but there's something to me untoward about a person who has committed himself to healing people and to making people alive who would take money to take an innocent life and to make that life dead. There's something that just doesn't ring true about the purpose of medical practice when the first rule of the Hippocratic Oath is "First, do no harm." Well, if you take the life and suction out the pieces of an unborn child for no reason than its inconvenience to the mother, I don't think you've lived up to your Hippocratic Oath of doing no harm.
He is advocating a ban on all abortion with no exception for rape, incest, or the life of the mother. That means mandatory pregnancy for all women who become pregnant, regardless. I'd be curious to know his views on contraception too. As I hear the pro-life movement being more brash in their statements, I can't help but wonder where the pro-choicers are?
Overall, I thought this interview was a home run for Huckabee. He showcased his ability to speak to the Christian base in a way that no other Republican primary candidate can. If Republican caucus and primary voters are thinking about social issues when they vote, Huckabee wins in a walk. Romney needs to make this race about fiscal issues. McCain needs to make it about national security.
Anne and Kyle, I completely agree. His extreme views terrify me, but his ability to articulate these views in a rational and reasonable way absolutely takes my fear to a level I can't even begin to deal with. I watched the interview with my jaw hanging open. Not once could I dismiss him as a nutjob or kook. He is perfectly plain spoken without seeming stupid. He is intelligent without being an elitist. After watching the interview, I have begun to believe that even more important than who wins the Democratic nomination is that Huckabee NOT get the Republican nomination.
Kyle,
I appreciate that the abortion issue has been a hot button of the right wing christian groups. For pro-abortion advocates to lump everyone that is troubled by abortion or at the very least will not promote abortion into the negative christian box that so many of your brethern use is counterproductive.
Kyle,
I'm not sure that Huckabee is advocating a ban on all abortion with no exception for rape, incest, or the life of the mother. I'm not sure if you drew that conclusion from his MTP interview or other literature. But when i look at that quote to me it sounds like he's talking about a ban for women who abort their children for no reason other than convenience.
Could you let me know where Huckabee has taken a more clear position on abortion to support your post that he supports mandatory pregnancy?
By the way I think legalizing abortion is a good thing although I'm against it morally. If we make it illegal all it will lead to is illegal clinics and more deaths of young mothers.
If Huckabee offended you by putting homosexuals and sadomachasists in the same category, then maybe you need to be bigger than that.
I think Bush has already overplayed the Jesus hand to the point where I don't really think Huckabee can lay those cards down to any real benefit. If the other Republicans running concede the Biblebot demographic to Huckabee, then maybe it will free them up to moderate their positions a little.
Could be a good thing.
One thing I know for sure is this:
Those Govt officials who profess that they know EXACTLY what is good for ME, Religiously/Morally are dead wrong. I frankly am on a higher plane / taught by experts, than that with NO hidden agenda (gem de gelt, Fred) that causes me to proselytize.
The last eight years have been full of that scenario.
They can eat shit and die for all I care.
So Huckabee: If you want to be President, stuff your religious agenda in you ass and campaign in a different way. And when/If you get the job, concentrate on your executive duties which include administering the Govt on behalf of heathens, homos, derelicts,even Rightwing extreemists and all the other Heinz57 varieties of citizens that make up AMERICA.
Annie, this was a good post - Huckabee just pisses the hell out of me
Fred we are not advocating an atheistic state, although after the last 8 years of "Governing for Jesus", I think even Jesus wouldn't much mind it for a while.
HAPPY NEW YEAR
Thats a good point Mencken, The Bush pandering to the Fundamentalists must have left them quite dissapointed since after 7+ years of "Governing for Jesus" we still have abortion in the USA.
That group will probably vote DEM just out of spite. So it goes
The states that have constitutionally outlawed gay marriage - this is just a convenient thrown bone ruse.
Ya, arent we all just ecstatic about stemming the tsunami of gay marriages in Ohio?
Wow, seen any gays w/ wedding rings in your neighborhood?
My guess, Gay ferriages in Ohio:
1803-2004 = 0
2005= 0
2006=0
2007=0
Whoopee the Republicans have saved us once again
The Hill 12/11/07 :
"It doesn't seem genuine to me because he has all these exceptions you could drive a truck through," she said, citing Romney's opposition to abortion except in the case of rape, incest and danger to the life of the mother.
McGinley, who said she had a friend conceived of rape, argued, "It's not right that a child would get capital punishment for the crime of the father."
After considering Romney for months, she finally slapped a Huckabee sticker on her car a few weeks ago, disappointing her close friend, Liz Feren, 37, who is the co-chairwoman of the Romney campaign for Merrimack County.
I cannot find a direct reference from Huckabee to a ban in the case of rape, incest, or life of the mother.
Here is Huckabee's Sanctity of Life page. He claims "No candidate has a stronger record on the sanctity of life than I do. I have always been actively and aggressively pro-life." The Christian right is hearing what they want to hear from Huckabee.
Kyle, as Mencken brought up, The Bush/Right has worn out most political/pander/ruses such as:
1.) Abortion - after pandering to all those suckas - absolutely NO change in that category
2.) Gay marriage, Gay bashing - its tired lets face it
3.)High moral ground- Governing for Jesus ---the Bush admin record of theft, continuous war, lies etc speaks for itself
I am saying that anthing thats heard on these related topics from ANY candidate is as much as the inside of an empty septic tank. No use wasting any breath or beta waves on those topics.
So---> How about a candidate thinking WAY outside the box:
"If I am elected...US Marines shall capture Bermuda and Seabees will build a RESORT retirement home for ALL Americans"
Or "I will outlaw ALL tobacco products"
"Free sporting events for every male over 16 years of age"
"19 Virgins......"
Petey,
Please -- what presidential candidate has any clue where to find 19 virgins?!?!?
Good Q
Annie,
Did you see the latest story about Huckabee's ads?
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/01/huckabee.christians/index.html
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