I think this was both Hillary and Obama's best personal appearance. I think both camps should be happy tonight. I do think though (surprise, surprise) that Obama won, only because in such an agreeable debate the war vote and even the issue of dynasty seemed more prominent.
The more I think about it, I think the onus was on Obama to close the remaining gap. A tie is a loss. This being the case, he may have fallen short. Hard to say.
For the first time ever, I have been struck with the possibility of them running on the same ticket. I literally have an upset stomach and bad gas from the thought.
i was thinking tonight that regardless of who wins and who loses, the democratic nominee is either going to be a woman or an african american. how incredibley awesome is that? i would hope that republicans and conservatives would also think it pretty cool, even if there is policy disagreement. over 210 years of existene before we get around to having either...why did it take so long?
next hurdle: winning. i just hope that neither turns out to be a tool.
You got one f'd up mind Timmy, seriously. I can guarantee that no one probably thought about what you were insinuating.
It would be the equivalent of some Republican telling Robert he would piss off Democrats by putting up a picture of a father, mother, and child because all Democrats are Nazi-Femms and hate men.
Anyways, because you are claiming that all republicans are racist and thus hate bi-racial couples, do you also think that black females are racist? Are you aware of the very negative view many black women have towards black men dating white women? Oh let me guess.. in your mind racism only goes one way.
I love how you will paint the Republicans as devils yet you will defend Mao and the murder of over 40 million Chinese. Some logic.
Christ, you probably wax poetic over the fall of the Soviet Union. I mean, I know they were high on Rage Against the Machine's list, but you should do your own research.
I'm watching McCain (and Giuliani) on Leno. What a weird day. It feels like an eight month hurricane has suddenly passed and left a settled calm and silence in the political world that can only be described as eerie [ears buzzing].
You have McCain the front-runner, Giuliani the endorsement, Huckabee the VP and Romney the loser.
On the Dem side, the debate was eye-poppingly cordial and the biggest applause line was when a joint ticket was brought up.
My take is that both Obama and Clinton think the momentum is on their side and they didn't want to rock the boat tonight. There isn't going to be some unity ticket. Despite tonight, it seems to me these two don't like each other.
Edwards has got to endorse. WTF is he waiting for?
Both candidates looked good. But Obama has so much more credibility on Iraq.
Importantly, Obama was about as good as usual. While Hillary has given all sorts of different approaches over the past year. that i becuase, in my assessment, Obama is genuine and Hillary is manufactured.
"While Hillary has given all sorts of different approaches over the past year. that i becuase, in my assessment, Obama is genuine and Hillary is manufactured."
Bingo. Clinton is the queen of triangulation (as a NYT Magazine profile laid out nicely about a year ago). She's trying to spin her Iraq vote over and over, but the fact is that the messed up.
Obama's in a tough spot: if he's too nice, people say he doesn't have the balls to take on the Republicans and he risks not making up ground against HRC. If he gets tough, he's being mean to the nice lady, who will surely emphasize that by warming up the tear ducts at the next opportunity.
No way do I want to see then on a ticket, because there's no way I want to see HRC anywhere near the White House unless she's in a cabinet position.
T-Dawg, I can't believe I'm about to type this but I like T-Dawg and Silent so much that.....
None of the kids that are in the emo scene like the music I do. While I've never really understood exactly what qualifies as emo and what doesn't, I've never liked anything I've been told is emo. It seems alot of people who don't know anything about new underground/indy music call it all emo now. Whatever. I like Brittish invasion and 60's garage, 70's punk and proto-punk, and soul, blues and Motown, also new stuff thats influenced by those things. Ok - so if you want to rip on me do it for me liking Sam Cooke, not Rage Against the Machine(god is rap-rock awful). Sorry for this BS Bob & Kyle.
Bob, you are paranoid. Things are going well for Obama and I think the debate gave Obama a slight edge.
I was reading an article about how Obama's biggest problem in California is he lacks name recognition amongst much of the latino community (more than 1/3 of voters). A recent poll had the hispanic vote going 65/20 to Hillary. So any debate where he can get exposure, do well, and expose Hillary's foreign policy is a success.
The only regret I have is that Obama should have gone right at her foreign policy record in the first questions about key differences.
Great (and flattering) article on Barack in the National Review. Yes, Tim...a conservative publication said Obama has a better chance of beating the Republican nominee, especially if it's McCain. I suppose it's reverse-reverse psychology.
I called it how long ago that a Clinton/Obama ticket would almost guarantee a win. But I can't see Hillary deferring the presidency to Obama.
And...I have to admit that Obama is a likeable guy. I can't agree with him on quite a few issues, but I can say the same for McCain as well. I can't wait to see the presidential debates.
Part of my thinks that if Hillary gets it, she will have to pick Obama. If she wins, it will be still very close. She will have to pick Obama to unite the party, which is divided.
I think Obama would have more freedom to not pick her because his platform is more about rejected the past. That said, he may benefit from picking her, especially since everyone thinks she is so experienced.
I watched a few minutes of the love fest and turned it off. Did they end up holding hands? Chuck--Hillary aint about to take the second seat she has already done that. I will stick with my prediction since day one: Hillary/Obama
I think you have a valid point. I can't imagine Obama ever picking HRC as a running mate. As a member of the cabinet - maybe. I agree that Obama's strongest moments were on the war however, the war seems to be second to the economy now. While I think HRC can't find her way out of a paper bag when the question turns to her vote on Iraq, I also wonder whether mainstream America cares and/or follows this issue of their initial positions on the war as closely as bloggers. I sure as heck hope they do b/c to me, Obama makes a great point about his ability to completely contrast McCain on the war issue - whereas HRC can't even explain her vote.
David Brooks said Hillary won the debate because he thinks Obama's rise lately has been due to the negativity of the Mlk statement and Bill. I tend to think that Obama's numbers rise as more and more people hear him. I think he's still just fighting Hillary's name recognition(as Chuck said but it goes beyond latinos).
If anyone is comic relief its Silent Majority. He takes his name from a Nixon quote and rants and raves about Mao and "Race Against the Machine(sic)" when I make a joke.
timfritz, Your right I should have used my name. I didn't want to get into the particulars and have a protracted name calling contest. But you have to admit that comment about people voting for Hillary in Fla. because she was going to get their vote to count was amusing.
Wow, I actually almost called that out(because of the timfritz thing) Fred but then I deleted it in case I was wrong. If you don't want to get into name calling a good way to start is by not calling me names. Its TimFitz or Tim.
Anyways - you don't think Hillary showing up in Florida and announcing that she would try to get their votes to count gave her a boost? Come on. As Annie says, most people aren't political junkies like us. I bet the Florida media was all over that. It had to help her.....
he is definetely a made up person by the editors of this site. He represents the "crazy" hippie liberals. I have suspected that alot of the characters on this site are manufactured by the writers to promote discussion. I think Silent Majority, Timfritz, T-Dog, petie and the others are all made up
Timfritz, Who exactly are these people that voted because Hilklary was going to make their vote count. 1. people that were for Hillary but werent going to bother to vote 2. people that didnt give a shit but said-- Hillary is going to make me count so I will vote for her. 3. people that were going to vote for someone else but knew that their vote was meaningless so they voted for Hillary on the off chance it would become meaningful What does the statement that most people are not political junkies have to do with your hypothesis?
Not only do I suspect that timfitz, petey, silent majority, fred, t-dawg and menken are made up by the editors of this site, but I bet that the anonymous commenter who made this observation is, too.
Damn you Chief Source editors, get out of my head!!!
The undecided factor Fred. You don't think a candidate who says they will make your vote count could sway undecideds? Come on. Even if you don't think it had a big effect you have to admit it would have had some....
Oct 17 - 46/45 - McCain +01
39 Comments:
I don't know what to think.
Part of me loves this civil, issue-oriented debate.
Part of me is really proud for the Democratic party, which clearly has two well-spoken candidates.
But a part of me is just weirded out.
I don't know what I would do if these two shared a ticket.
I think this was both Hillary and Obama's best personal appearance. I think both camps should be happy tonight. I do think though (surprise, surprise) that Obama won, only because in such an agreeable debate the war vote and even the issue of dynasty seemed more prominent.
The more I think about it, I think the onus was on Obama to close the remaining gap. A tie is a loss. This being the case, he may have fallen short. Hard to say.
For the first time ever, I have been struck with the possibility of them running on the same ticket. I literally have an upset stomach and bad gas from the thought.
Playing nice benefits Barrack, but I don't think there was really a winner.
Bob,
Be careful with those kind of pics. We don't want to offend our republican friends. har.
i was thinking tonight that regardless of who wins and who loses, the democratic nominee is either going to be a woman or an african american.
how incredibley awesome is that?
i would hope that republicans and conservatives would also think it pretty cool, even if there is policy disagreement.
over 210 years of existene before we get around to having either...why did it take so long?
next hurdle: winning. i just hope that neither turns out to be a tool.
You got one f'd up mind Timmy, seriously. I can guarantee that no one probably thought about what you were insinuating.
It would be the equivalent of some Republican telling Robert he would piss off Democrats by putting up a picture of a father, mother, and child because all Democrats are Nazi-Femms and hate men.
Anyways, because you are claiming that all republicans are racist and thus hate bi-racial couples, do you also think that black females are racist? Are you aware of the very negative view many black women have towards black men dating white women? Oh let me guess.. in your mind racism only goes one way.
I love how you will paint the Republicans as devils yet you will defend Mao and the murder of over 40 million Chinese. Some logic.
Christ, you probably wax poetic over the fall of the Soviet Union. I mean, I know they were high on Rage Against the Machine's list, but you should do your own research.
I'm watching McCain (and Giuliani) on Leno. What a weird day. It feels like an eight month hurricane has suddenly passed and left a settled calm and silence in the political world that can only be described as eerie [ears buzzing].
You have McCain the front-runner, Giuliani the endorsement, Huckabee the VP and Romney the loser.
On the Dem side, the debate was eye-poppingly cordial and the biggest applause line was when a joint ticket was brought up.
Is the writing be on the wall?
My take is that both Obama and Clinton think the momentum is on their side and they didn't want to rock the boat tonight. There isn't going to be some unity ticket. Despite tonight, it seems to me these two don't like each other.
Edwards has got to endorse. WTF is he waiting for?
Both candidates looked good. But Obama has so much more credibility on Iraq.
Importantly, Obama was about as good as usual. While Hillary has given all sorts of different approaches over the past year. that i becuase, in my assessment, Obama is genuine and Hillary is manufactured.
It was a joke dude. Mitt Romney talked about having families before "making babies".
Rage Against the machine? Mao? What are you talking about?
Silent - I have a profile here, on myspace, and flickr. If you want to rip on me look at those first and atleast be accurate.
Looks like an alliance from hell
tim on your website-what kind of music is that playing, emo?
"While Hillary has given all sorts of different approaches over the past year. that i becuase, in my assessment, Obama is genuine and Hillary is manufactured."
Bingo. Clinton is the queen of triangulation (as a NYT Magazine profile laid out nicely about a year ago). She's trying to spin her Iraq vote over and over, but the fact is that the messed up.
Obama's in a tough spot: if he's too nice, people say he doesn't have the balls to take on the Republicans and he risks not making up ground against HRC. If he gets tough, he's being mean to the nice lady, who will surely emphasize that by warming up the tear ducts at the next opportunity.
No way do I want to see then on a ticket, because there's no way I want to see HRC anywhere near the White House unless she's in a cabinet position.
T-Dawg,
I can't believe I'm about to type this but I like T-Dawg and Silent so much that.....
None of the kids that are in the emo scene like the music I do. While I've never really understood exactly what qualifies as emo and what doesn't, I've never liked anything I've been told is emo.
It seems alot of people who don't know anything about new underground/indy music call it all emo now. Whatever.
I like Brittish invasion and 60's garage, 70's punk and proto-punk, and soul, blues and Motown, also new stuff thats influenced by those things. Ok - so if you want to rip on me do it for me liking Sam Cooke, not Rage Against the Machine(god is rap-rock awful).
Sorry for this BS Bob & Kyle.
Bob, you are paranoid. Things are going well for Obama and I think the debate gave Obama a slight edge.
I was reading an article about how Obama's biggest problem in California is he lacks name recognition amongst much of the latino community (more than 1/3 of voters). A recent poll had the hispanic vote going 65/20 to Hillary. So any debate where he can get exposure, do well, and expose Hillary's foreign policy is a success.
The only regret I have is that Obama should have gone right at her foreign policy record in the first questions about key differences.
NPR called it slightly in favor of Clinton.
Great (and flattering) article on Barack in the National Review. Yes, Tim...a conservative publication said Obama has a better chance of beating the Republican nominee, especially if it's McCain. I suppose it's reverse-reverse psychology.
I called it how long ago that a Clinton/Obama ticket would almost guarantee a win. But I can't see Hillary deferring the presidency to Obama.
And...I have to admit that Obama is a likeable guy. I can't agree with him on quite a few issues, but I can say the same for McCain as well. I can't wait to see the presidential debates.
Part of my thinks that if Hillary gets it, she will have to pick Obama. If she wins, it will be still very close. She will have to pick Obama to unite the party, which is divided.
I think Obama would have more freedom to not pick her because his platform is more about rejected the past. That said, he may benefit from picking her, especially since everyone thinks she is so experienced.
I watched a few minutes of the love fest and turned it off. Did they end up holding hands?
Chuck--Hillary aint about to take the second seat she has already done that. I will stick with my prediction since day one: Hillary/Obama
Chuck-
I think you have a valid point. I can't imagine Obama ever picking HRC as a running mate. As a member of the cabinet - maybe. I agree that Obama's strongest moments were on the war however, the war seems to be second to the economy now. While I think HRC can't find her way out of a paper bag when the question turns to her vote on Iraq, I also wonder whether mainstream America cares and/or follows this issue of their initial positions on the war as closely as bloggers. I sure as heck hope they do b/c to me, Obama makes a great point about his ability to completely contrast McCain on the war issue - whereas HRC can't even explain her vote.
David Brooks said Hillary won the debate because he thinks Obama's rise lately has been due to the negativity of the Mlk statement and Bill.
I tend to think that Obama's numbers rise as more and more people hear him. I think he's still just fighting Hillary's name recognition(as Chuck said but it goes beyond latinos).
Does timfritz really exist or did the editors of this site create him for comic relief?
Hey, I have a face and a name. You criticize me behind the anonymity of the internet. Awesome. It takes a big man(or woman) to do that!
If anyone is comic relief its Silent Majority. He takes his name from a Nixon quote and rants and raves about Mao and "Race Against the Machine(sic)" when I make a joke.
timfritz,
Your right I should have used my name. I didn't want to get into the particulars and have a protracted name calling contest. But you have to admit that comment about people voting for Hillary in Fla. because she was going to get their vote to count was amusing.
Wow, I actually almost called that out(because of the timfritz thing) Fred but then I deleted it in case I was wrong. If you don't want to get into name calling a good way to start is by not calling me names. Its TimFitz or Tim.
Anyways - you don't think Hillary showing up in Florida and announcing that she would try to get their votes to count gave her a boost? Come on. As Annie says, most people aren't political junkies like us. I bet the Florida media was all over that. It had to help her.....
he is definetely a made up person by the editors of this site. He represents the "crazy" hippie liberals. I have suspected that alot of the characters on this site are manufactured by the writers to promote discussion. I think Silent Majority, Timfritz, T-Dog, petie and the others are all made up
Timfritz,
Who exactly are these people that voted because Hilklary was going to make their vote count.
1. people that were for Hillary but werent going to bother to vote
2. people that didnt give a shit but said-- Hillary is going to make me count so I will vote for her.
3. people that were going to vote for someone else but knew that their vote was meaningless so they voted for Hillary on the off chance it would become meaningful What does the statement that most people are not political junkies have to do with your hypothesis?
Not only do I suspect that timfitz, petey, silent majority, fred, t-dawg and menken are made up by the editors of this site, but I bet that the anonymous commenter who made this observation is, too.
Damn you Chief Source editors, get out of my head!!!
The undecided factor Fred. You don't think a candidate who says they will make your vote count could sway undecideds? Come on. Even if you don't think it had a big effect you have to admit it would have had some....
Timfritz,
Once again your facts and mastery of logic have won the day. You win
Yeah,
My argument was completely irrational and ridiculous.
This from a guy who talks about being assaulted by the women's lib movement.
go back to shopping at hot topic timfritz, you are so cliched its pathetic
Fred,
Go back to lynching. You are so cliched its a joke.
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