Oct 17 - 46/45 - McCain +01
Senator Clinton A Fighter, Punching Everyone
In my opinion, Tim Russert conducts some of the most fair and thoughtful interviews in American politics. I have said it before here and here. Hillary Clinton was yesterday's guest. Watch this short video to get a flavor for the interview. Here is a few excerpts from the transcript in chronological order to illustrate a point (transcript):
Senator Clinton had a clear one-two punch in place that she executed repeatedly in this interview. ONE - she consistently questioned the questions rather than answering them. It didn't seem to matter who was quoted or how the question was phrased. TWO - she went on offense using prepared talking points and made an effort to not let herself get trapped into actually answering the question she was asked. She took shots at reporters quoted, Russert, and especially Obama. Once finished on offense, she would then go to a rope-a-dope of generic platitudes and nonsense like "35 years of proven, tested leadership" and "And much of what I've gone through in my entire life is, I believe, preparation for being able to go into that Oval Office." Then, it was back to the one-two. Some people will see her as a fighter for this kind of performance.
I think primaries are different than a general election. There is a price to be paid for punching your fellow Democrats, especially below the belt. One thing that today solidified in my mind is that if Hillary is our nominee, Barack isn't going to be her vice president. She is pulling no punches. If this race is about what is good for her and not about what is good for our party, then that is the approach to take. But, let's not pretend that she is going to bring out party together. It seems the rhetoric is only going to get worse as we near Super Tuesday.
Senator Clinton: "Well, beats me, because there's not one shred of truth in what you've just read... it's been unfairly and inaccurately characterized... but you did not give the entire quote... I understand the taking out of context and the mischaracterization... it is such an unfair and unwarranted attempt to, you know, misinterpret and mischaracterize what I've said... oh, that is so untrue and unfair... you're once again taking words I didn't say... well, Tim, let's put this in context. You didn't show my entire speech--of course... let's look at the entire context... well, Tim, if I had a lot of paper in front of me, I could quote people who say something very differently, so I know you're very good at this and I respect it, but let's look at the context here... well, you know, Tim, we can have this Jesuitical argument about what exactly was meant... Tim, I think that it's only fair to look at the entire context... and if, of course, you see the vote as I saw it as opposed as how it's been characterized... (first commercial break)"
Senator Clinton had a clear one-two punch in place that she executed repeatedly in this interview. ONE - she consistently questioned the questions rather than answering them. It didn't seem to matter who was quoted or how the question was phrased. TWO - she went on offense using prepared talking points and made an effort to not let herself get trapped into actually answering the question she was asked. She took shots at reporters quoted, Russert, and especially Obama. Once finished on offense, she would then go to a rope-a-dope of generic platitudes and nonsense like "35 years of proven, tested leadership" and "And much of what I've gone through in my entire life is, I believe, preparation for being able to go into that Oval Office." Then, it was back to the one-two. Some people will see her as a fighter for this kind of performance.I think primaries are different than a general election. There is a price to be paid for punching your fellow Democrats, especially below the belt. One thing that today solidified in my mind is that if Hillary is our nominee, Barack isn't going to be her vice president. She is pulling no punches. If this race is about what is good for her and not about what is good for our party, then that is the approach to take. But, let's not pretend that she is going to bring out party together. It seems the rhetoric is only going to get worse as we near Super Tuesday.
By Kyle - 1/14/2008
125 Comments:
I would tend to agree that if she it is the nominee it is unlikely Obama would be the VP pick....it would be bad politics (by the book) to take someone who would overshadow the top of the ticket. It would be an interesting strategic move. That said, I dont think he would accept it anyways. Neither of them is in the "Bill Richardson role" - they both want to be the nominee and arent the least bit concerned about anything else at this point.
Another great post.
I called Kyle today after watching Meet the Press asking, "Man, was that as bad as I thought it was?"
She even restated Bill's misleading claim about Obama's wavering anti-war stance. Well, as long as she keeps restating it, I'm going to keep reposting all the related transcripts and videos which show how misleading it was.
Keep in mind, Bill didn't just say, "Obama's opposition to the war has not been entirely unwavering yada yada" he called his anti-war stance THE BIGGEST FAIRY TALE HE HAD EVER HEARD, in a lifetime of politics!
Again, feel free to review the facts below:
BILL CLINTON Jan 8th, 2008: It is wrong that Senator Obama got to go through 15 debates trumpeting his superior judgement. And how he had been against the war in every year, enumerating the years. And never got asked one time, not once: well how can you say that when you said in 2004 you didn't know how you would have voted on the resolution, you said in 2004 that there was no difference than you and George Bush on the war and you took that speech you're now running on off your website in 2004, and there's no difference between your voting record and Hillary's ever since. Give me a break. This whole thing is the biggest fairy tale, I've ever seen.
MEET THE PRESS - July 25th 2004 (on the eve of Kerry/Edwards nomination):
MR. RUSSERT: The nominee of your party, John Kerry, the nominee for vice president, John Edwards, all said [Saddam] was an imminent threat. They voted to authorize George Bush to go to war. How could they have been so wrong and you so write (sic) as a state legislator in Illinois and they're on the Foreign Relations and Intelligence committees in Washington?
STATE REP. OBAMA: Well, I think they have access to information that I did not have. And what is absolutely clear is that John Kerry said, "If we go into war, let's make sure that we do it right. Let's make sure that our troops are supported. Let's make sure that we have the kind of coalition that's necessary to succeed." And the execution of what was a difficult choice to make was something that all of us have to be concerned about. And moving forward, the only way that we're going to be able to succeed is if, I think, we have an administration led by John Kerry that's going to allow us to consolidate the relationships with our allies that bring about investment in Iraq.
MR. RUSSERT: But if you had been a senator at that time, you would have voted not to authorize President Bush to go to war?
STATE REP. OBAMA: I would have voted not to authorize the president given the facts as I saw them at that time.
MR. RUSSERT: So you disagree with John Kerry and John Edwards?
STATE REP. OBAMA: At that time, but, as I said, I wasn't there and what is absolutely clear as we move forward is that if we don't have a change in tone and a change in administration, I think we're going to have trouble making sure that our troops are secure and that we succeed in Iraq.
And the second part, the Washington Post's Fact Checker explains:
In an interview published in the Chicago Tribune the following day (July 27,2004), Obama said that he would have voted "no" on the Senate resolution. But he said he was not in favor of "pulling out now." On the issue of whether to stay in Iraq [in 2004], he said "there's not much of a difference between my position and George Bush's position at this stage." The context of his remarks makes clear that he was not referring to the original decision to go into Iraq, but the question of whether to remain.
On Meet the Press, Senator Clinton defended her 2002 vote for the Iraq war resolution, saying that she "thought it was a vote to put inspectors back in" so Saddam Hussein could not go unchecked. She insisted that she and others were "told by the White House personally" that this was the purpose of the resolution, and cited President Bush's assurances to defend her position.
There is no way this crap is acceptable. This topic alone is a reason she should not receive a single vote in the Democratic primaries.....
1) That is a total LIE! The day before the Iraq War vote, she voted against the Levin amendment, which would have required the UN inspectors first finish the job, and only then could we go to war. SO SHE IF SHE WANTED INSPECTORS, SHE WOULD HAVE VOTED FOR THIS. But she voted against the Levin Amendment.
2) Okay, so lets just ignore her vote on the Levin amendment and say she is not a liar. Well, than her Iraq War vote displayed the worst judgment ever. She just decided to trust the Bush/Cheney based on their vague assurances??????
What kind of idiot is she?
So I don't know what's worse? Lying about the intent of her vote, or just admitting she had the judgment of a 2-year old on the most important vote of her legislative career???? Its a tough call.
Even tougher to understand how anyone could support this hack. And I know we should just say good things about Obama, but actually it is important to realize how terrible she is.
Chuck,
It is hard for me to listen to this historical rewrite of H.J. RES 114, too. Of all topics, that war vote is most like an exposed nerve for me. To this day.
We all followed the lead up to the war (over at The Minutemen on Politics, our original political blog) and I remember the details all too vividly. We all remember what that vote was but alas, once more...
It was a moment where every Democrat in Congress had to chose between risking their political career, and the stain of unpatriotic, by standing up against a popular war or sign the blank check that shifted Congress' responsibility to an untrustworthy, hawkish Executive Branch. It was unconstitutional. It was the single greatest test of leadership and principle that Congress has seen in a decade. Half the Dems passed (with Ron Paul I might add) and half caved. It is really very simple.
Edwards has since apologized, admitting that the vote was a huge mistake. I give him much credit for this.
If Hillary refuses to admit, 2 trillion dollars and 4000 American lives later that it was a mistake, that's her prerogative. But she can never marginalize or reframe that vote for those of us who followed it so closely.
I love that Tim Russert quoted avid Hillary supporter James Carville: anyone who says that vote wasn't a vote for war is bunk.
She outa lay off the Jesuits
I was educated by Jesuits as was Tim Russert
Another headline today at the Times about Hillary rewriting history:
In Defending War Vote, Clintons Contradict Record
I didn't think she came across nearly as badly as you guys. I also thought she clarified and adequately defended Bill's fairy tale comment, and the attacks on her trying to characterize those statements (as well as her reference to MLK, LBJ & JFK) as an indictment on Obama because of his race by Coburn (sp?) I found revolting. As an aside a colleague of mine received a call from the Obama campaign asking for a donation and when told that she was supporting Hillary the Obama staffer asked her why she was against diversity.-While I am sure Obama is not behind it this subtle manipulation of race is not savory and will turn off people.
I am not a Hillary supporter, I haven't made up my mind on a candidate, but he has yet to put down a nuts and bolts plan and until he does I am not going to support a faith based candidate. Been there and have seen the results.
I was looking through the archives and I remember asking back in June for his plan-after Kyle went to see him at Tri-C -on Healthcare and I was shouted down by the usual clowns, but NO PLAN. Again I want a chicken in every pot as much as the next guy but hope and .99 cents is only gonna get you a cup of coffee at the end of the day. (Or $1.39 if you prefer the high quality coffee from starbucks which is what Highland Square really needs)
All of this drama is just obscuring the real issue and if he puts out a good plan I would be more than willing to support him-but he needs to put out something tangible if he wants to win. The tribes have aligned, the only voters left are the nomads like myself and he isn't doing what he needs to increase his # of supporters
Also all of the Hillary bashing has reached terminal levels and I think is beginning to fall on deaf ears. It is to the point that it seems like white noise
This woman has been bashed for the better part of the 90's and for most o this century, after a while people just tune it out
I strongly detest Hillary but do not think her showing on Meet the Press was as bad as you guys are making it out to be. She merely refuted the ridiculous allegations from the Obama camp and other black politicians.
It's pathetic that just because you guys are such big Obama supporters you blind yourself to the realities of the situation.
It's also a damn shame that Obama had to resort to the race card when there it was not even there. If he is the "Agent of Change" he should be above that.
Like I said, I hate Hillary and would prefer Obama 10000000x over, but he lost some points for this.
What a wimp for not coming out and criticizing Clayborne or that black CNN female analyst for misconstruing Hillary's comments.
Hell, even Tiger Woods had the balls to tell the black establishment to pipe down (and those comments were 100x more insensitive than Hillary's, which weren't even insensitive)
Just another example of the black establishment acting like they have a monopoly on racial issues.
A white lawyer was nearly beaten to death by 6 black teenagers in Shaker, Ohio. Of course, there is no chance in hell it will be prosecuted as a hate crime. I wonder what would happen if a black lawyer was nearly beaten to death by 6 white thugs?
t-dawg,
I promised to write a "Why I like Obama" post, which has specifics and not Hillary comparisons. I assure you that I have a draft saved and am currently working on it.
I couldn't resist blogging on these other timely stories, but my response to your valid questions is in the making and will be up this week. I look forward to a discussion of his record.
BTW...
When you say "Hillary bashing" I don't think that's really fair.
I took the time to post all the transcripts for readers to check and judge for themselves and even linked to a Times story today about how the Clinton's statements are misleading. I'm not just calling her dirty names, I am holding her accountable for her statements. As I said earlier, I encourage Hillary supporters to do the same of Obama.
Bob Johnson, America's first black billionaire and a man who is largely at fault for promoting the destructive thug culture that is destroying the black community, came out with some pretty poignant statements regarding the Obama camp playing the race card.
I personally think Bob Johnson is swine, but he made some good points. Not that I really think Obama's past drug use is relevant, but to have the gall to accuse the Clinton's (who I don't like) as being racist.
"To me, as an African American, I am frankly insulted the Obama campaign would imply that we are so stupid that we would think Hillary and Bill Clinton, who have been deeply and emotionally involved in black issues — when Barack Obama was doing something in the neighborhood; I won't say what he was doing, but he said it in his book — when they have been involved," Johnson said.
SM,
Someone show me where Obama or his immediate staffers accused Hillary of being racist!! As Tim Russert pointed out, these statements came from neutral Congressmen not Obama's minions.
For the record, I don't find Hillary's statements racist. Those that play the race card here, in defense of Obama or otherwise, are going overboard.
I do think though that Hillary's "It took a president to get it done" line was really dumb. To suggest that the politicians who signed civil rights legislation were ultimately, or somehow more responsible than civil rights leaders who gave their lives for the legislation is just dumb.
Again, please show me where Obama or his staffers are accusing Hillary of being racist.
All I've heard him say is that he felt the statements were "ill-advised."
This is what happens....when the race issue is brought up, they win. That is why the Clinton people are delighted that race is now an issue (and why she loves addressing the issue, despite Obama himself leaving it alone).
I have not heard Obama or any of his surrogates inject race into this debate at all. I'd like to see an example.
Funny stuff. Bill speaks out about Obama's 80 personal attacks on Hillary. From the Times:
The ex-president said his wife's way of handling attacks showed a clear difference from Obama. "She didn't complain about it," he said. "She just said, 'I disagree' and went on."
The funny part: the title of the article is Bill Clinton COMPLAINS about Obama's attacks. And Kyle has already gathered all of Hillary's complaints from just the first segment of the Meet the Press interview.
Funny.
I wasn't referring to you personally with my HIllary bashing comment bob-Just like in 04 when you could go through a litany of reasons to vote against GWB, people began to just tune it out and become more entrenched in their opinion the same phenomenon is happening with Hillary Clinton. If there isn't a palatable alternative she will win and no amount of criticism will change that.
Hillary or her surrogates aren't filing that suit in Vegas but you all attributing that to her-it is corollary to her getting attacked on the race issue, he may not be behind it (or even agree with it) but because it (supposedly) benefits him he will have the burden of responsibility for it.
good to hear from you again SM
HEADLINE: Bill Clinton compiles 'list' of Obama attacks
I read the article and do not see any link to his actual list. Is it possible that he made a list and complained about it without actually revealing it?
Please tell me if you see the actual list of 80 personal attacks!
Here's a funny anonymous comment from the same story:
"It's laughable to think that the Clinton people were saying just a few weeks ago that Obama wasn't electable because he would be torn apart by the Republican Attack Machine.
If Obama survives the Clinton Attack Machine, he'll be able to handle anything the Republicans dish out."
I wasn't referring to you personally with my HIllary bashing comment bob-Just like in 04 when you could go through a litany of reasons to vote against GWB, people began to just tune it out and become more entrenched in their opinion the same phenomenon is happening with Hillary Clinton. If there isn't a palatable alternative she will win and no amount of criticism will change that.
Hillary or her surrogates aren't filing that suit in Vegas but you all attributing that to her-it is corollary to her getting attacked on the race issue, he may not be behind it (or even agree with it) but because it (supposedly) benefits him he will have the burden of responsibility for it.
good to hear from you again SM
t-dawg,
As I noted: the Nevada State Education Association’s deputy executive director, Debbie Cahill, was a founding member of Senator Clinton’s Nevada Women’s Leadership Council. This lawsuit was brought TWO DAYS after Obama won the endorsement. As the Washington Post also points out:
"The Nevada State Education Association, some of whose top leaders have individually endorsed Clinton, filed the suit and is using a law firm with close ties to the onetime front-runner, Kummer, Kaempfer, Bonner, Renshaw, and Ferrario. Former congressmen James H. Bilbray (D-Nev.), a lawyer at that firm, has endorsed Clinton and is stumping for her in the Silver State."
Do you really think that Hillary's surrogates are not behind this? I'd sure consider anyone who has stumped for her a surrogate.
Like clock-work, fissures are beginning to develop in the Democratic Party.
Obama easily could have squelched this ridiculous quarrel. Do not give me that BS "Show me where he has said something..."
That's the point: He has said nothing.
Robert and Patty,
I stopped into my office this afternoon - have not been in there since mid November.
Saw your kindly Holiday message and nifty bumper stickers.
I hope your Holidays were
full of yuletide cheer and appreciate you thinking of a smartass native upstate NewYorker (Schenectady 1952-1957) like me.
SM,
Read this just up at the NY Times: Obama Tries to Stop the Silliness
Here's an excerpt:
Asked whether he believed either Mrs. Clinton or former President Bill Clinton had shown racial insensitivity in recent days, he said: “I don’t want to rehash that. I think that Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton have historically and consistently been on the right side of civil rights issues. I think they care about the African-American community and that they care about all Americans and they want to see equal rights and justice in this country.”
Thoughts?
Robert, I'm curious if you actually read that quote. For if you did, how in the hell can you act like he squelched the controversy.
He said "I don't want to rehash that." To me, and I hope to you too, he is deliberately side-stepping the issue. He could end it with just saying, like Tiger Woods did, that is was a ridiculous assertion being made (as noted before, the comments towards Tiger were actually insensitive).
But no, instead he gave the typical, politician quote that is making me dislike him more and more each day. He appeases the blacks by not castigating the ridiculous allegations of racism, yet still kisses-ass to the Clinton's.
Hey Obama, either say the comments were racist or say they were not. It isn't that hard. So much for the "Agent of Change".
Plus, the man goes to a RACIST church. As bad as Hillary is, at least she doesn't go to a "white-worshipping" church.
Maybe you have already posted about it, but I am not sure how a non-believer like yourself can just wink at Obama's "blacks only" church. Talk about dividing the nation.
Just try to pause and not get too caught up in his hypnotic words. Sure, he speaks eloquently and talks about the highest ideals, but when it comes down to it, he has no plans.
SM,
Wow.
You wanted him to "squelch the quarrel." He squelched it. Surprise, surprise... you're still not satisfied.
Are you serious? When I wrote "squelch" I meant he should have said it was never an issue to begin with. A problem with semantics I suppose.
Seriously, I hope you were not satisfied with "I don't want to rehash that". As stated previously, Tiger Woods has more balls.
Still curious your thoughts on his separatist religion...
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群馬 不動産
群馬 ハウスメーカー
埼玉 不動産
埼玉 ハウスメーカー
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プレゼント 男の子用
盲導犬ユーザーの皆さまが大手ECサイトで商品をご購入される際、グリーンクリックを経由していただくだけでECサイトから支盲導犬。グリーンクリックを利用することで、商品の購入価 格が変わったり、寄付の代行手数料が別途か香川県 不動産 -あなぶき不産ナビ四国４県、岡山の不動産、の不動産など不動産情報検索（マンション・一戸建て・土地・収益物件等香川県 不動産）サイトです。穴吹不動産流通株式会社
広島 不動産不動産 広島,岡山/四国(香川,徳島,愛媛,高知) -あなぶき不産ナビ四国４県岡山の不動産、広島 不動産広島の不動産など不動産情報検索（マンション・一戸建て・土地・収益物件等広島 不動産）サイトです。穴吹不動産流通株式会社"
キャッシュバック 即日当社の提供するキャッシュバックとは、当社の販売する商品をクレジットカード決済でご購入頂き、キャッシュバック 即日お客様ご指定の口座にご購入金額の最高99．5％を入金するシステムです
トライアルエステ体験コースエルセーヌトライアルコースミスパリトライアルコーススリムビューティーハウストライアルコ