Hillary's talking heads, when asked who won, actually said:
John McCain.
This was a blowout by any measure. The only angle that the Hillary camp has is that the questioning was unfairly tough on her. And maybe it was.
But when Ohio voters hear Russert call her out on her NAFTA record that settles it, all of the bickering over the mailers is suddenly insignificant in comparison. Russert called her out on that her tax records and a host of other things.
In the end, she seemed more caddy than last time while Obama seemed more presidential.
Watch the polls in Texas and Ohio, by Friday we will see a huge Obama bump in both.
I honestly do not how any democrat could vote for Hillary over Obama. His answers and ideas are superior in every arena, including foreign policy. He did a good job in explaining Russert's attempted "gotcha" questions, while Hillary waffled.
I have to admit I was also impressed with his ideas on Pakistan. However, I think he is wrong for trying to intimidate Russia and in recognizing Kosovo.
I believe there's a good chance Obama will win on Tuesday, and I will be voting for him.
But, I do think that Hillary had a good debate. I thought she took control when she said to Russert that he asks a lot of hypotheticals, and then she said what the reality was.
I actually thought Obama seemed to be playing it safe and lacked much enthusiasm (and again, I'm voting for Obama, I'm just saying I didn't think it was a great performance for him).
I forgot that she told Russert that he had his facts wrong after he said that her record on NAFTA was very clear reading several of her own quotes to her.
Wow, and there was the "economic blueprint" question from Russert, where he points out that, while she's promising job creation now, that she promised to create 5 million jobs in upstate NY and since has lost thousands there.
Her excuse for the lack of job growth in Buffalo was bad too. While I understand her excuse, point is she should not make promises if she cannot deliver.
And then there's the moment when Brian Williams has to insist over Hillary interruptions that they go to a commercial break. Is it a big deal? No. But it's yet another awkward, not-so-presidential moment for her.
i had several 'cringe moments' while watching. all of them on clinton.
wtf was up with her denounce vs. reject comparison? she wasn't even asked about it, and she interjected herself into it. i couldn't figure out where she was going with it at first. when it became clear, i felt embarrassed for her. then russert followed up...ouch!
i tried to be dispassionate while watching, but that and a few other areas just made me cringe.
Wisconsin was one nail on the coffin. The last debate was the final nail. She has been and is done.
Still would be nice to see Obama come close in Ohio, to get her to concede. If she keeps on, she will keep trying to bring him down and drag this out just to help herself.
As far as tonight, I think it was another draw (that makes about 14 draws and 2 wins a peice for Hillary, Obama, and Edwards) Did think Barack was a bit slow to start tonight. He is better standing up while debating.
And Russert sucks. He is all "gotcha" questions and little substance. His only legit question seemed to be the Russia stuff, and that nearly put me to sleep (not that it is unimportant). Further, that was probably a "gotcha" hoping someone could not talk sufficiently to the topic.
At least the crowd was not allowed to cheer every 2 seconds....CNN generally annoys me with all that.
And hillary's claim about the moderators/questions being biased against her is so pathetic. What a whiny little baby. I wish Obama would have later joked about it when he went first....but all the questions were sort of serious, so not much room to joke.
Clinton was terrible. Absolutely terrible. The whining about getting asked questions first, the SNL line, denounce/reject, trying to talk over Williams when he wanted to go to a break, etc. -- all very unpresidential.
A Hillary supporter came to our table at the theater last night and challenged us on the denounce/reject thing, while also claiming that Obama tried to tie Iraq to Al Qaeda (when answering the "reinvade in six months" question), and would act like Dubya and not talk to foreign leaders in a way that helps the US. On the latter point, when I noted that he is interested in talking to our enemies, she said, "with no conditions!" Wait a minute, a second ago, you said he wouldn't talk to enemies...
She also complained that he invokes China when talking about NAFTA.
I disagree about Russert's questions being anything but well prepared substantive questions. I always enjoy his questions because he inserts the candidates' specific records on issues. I appreciated the question on Russia, in particular. I also did not realize at the time that HRC jumped in to answer that one. She really shot herself in the foot (on that response, among so many others) as she could have waited for Obama to demonstrate his foreign policy knowledge by stating the new Russian president's name. Instead, she pounced on the question (answering it first - interesting given her comments about always having to answer the tought questions first) and then she made the huge mistake of saying "whatever" when Russert corrected her on the new president's name.
Obama - very bright, concise answers (generally), leadership look, great answers and gives credit where due
HC - Status Quo crook, pandering, occulting all her rich interests that would be discovered in her income tax return. MAKES MY DOG BARK! Bondo Face, Great Dimples and pretty blue eyes, WHY AM I ALWAY FIRST? (loser)
Tim Russert: Warts on face, goofy hypotheticals...but a B- for effort
Williams: The clear winner in the "debate" (Ya), I loved his lead in "There are NO Rules"
Russert asked great questions. He forced them to talk about positions outside of their usual campaign rhetoric, and he wouldn't let HC get away with any bullshit.
HC keeps calling herself a fighter, and Obama a talker. When i think of our most successful presidents, I think charisma, not fighter. Reagan, FDR, Lincoln, and even Bill were all successful because they were charismatic enough to be convincing. You can't fight your way through a stalemated congress, forcing the passage of proposals, you have to use the power of words and persuasion.
I don't care how great she thinks her healthcare plan is, it would never get through congress as written, especially with HC standing behind it. Republican will readily unite, and block the passage of her propaosals. At least Obama's plan has an element of choice, which may sway a few Republicans to vote for it.
Oct 17 - 46/45 - McCain +01
37 Comments:
Hillary's talking heads, when asked who won, actually said:
John McCain.
This was a blowout by any measure. The only angle that the Hillary camp has is that the questioning was unfairly tough on her. And maybe it was.
But when Ohio voters hear Russert call her out on her NAFTA record that settles it, all of the bickering over the mailers is suddenly insignificant in comparison. Russert called her out on that her tax records and a host of other things.
In the end, she seemed more caddy than last time while Obama seemed more presidential.
Watch the polls in Texas and Ohio, by Friday we will see a huge Obama bump in both.
To be clear, I really believe we just witnessed the end of this race.
I honestly do not how any democrat could vote for Hillary over Obama. His answers and ideas are superior in every arena, including foreign policy. He did a good job in explaining Russert's attempted "gotcha" questions, while Hillary waffled.
I have to admit I was also impressed with his ideas on Pakistan. However, I think he is wrong for trying to intimidate Russia and in recognizing Kosovo.
I believe there's a good chance Obama will win on Tuesday, and I will be voting for him.
But, I do think that Hillary had a good debate. I thought she took control when she said to Russert that he asks a lot of hypotheticals, and then she said what the reality was.
I actually thought Obama seemed to be playing it safe and lacked much enthusiasm (and again, I'm voting for Obama, I'm just saying I didn't think it was a great performance for him).
I am stunned that anyone could think Hillary did a good job. So what if Russert was asking hypotheticals? Was the hypothetical that far-fetched? No.
So why shouldn't a potential president explain what they would do in such circumstances.
Obama also did a great job in refuting her attempts at tying him to Farrakahn and his driving the bus in the ditch statement.
I'm watching it a second time now.
I forgot that she told Russert that he had his facts wrong after he said that her record on NAFTA was very clear reading several of her own quotes to her.
This was an awful moment for her.
Wow, and there was the "economic blueprint" question from Russert, where he points out that, while she's promising job creation now, that she promised to create 5 million jobs in upstate NY and since has lost thousands there.
This was a crushing moment.
Her excuse for the lack of job growth in Buffalo was bad too. While I understand her excuse, point is she should not make promises if she cannot deliver.
I do not see how anyone can disagree with his stance on Pakistan.
SM,
Yeah the "bus in the ditch" comeback was a killer. A complete killer.
And then there's the moment when Brian Williams has to insist over Hillary interruptions that they go to a commercial break. Is it a big deal? No. But it's yet another awkward, not-so-presidential moment for her.
i had several 'cringe moments' while watching. all of them on clinton.
wtf was up with her denounce vs. reject comparison? she wasn't even asked about it, and she interjected herself into it.
i couldn't figure out where she was going with it at first. when it became clear, i felt embarrassed for her. then russert followed up...ouch!
i tried to be dispassionate while watching, but that and a few other areas just made me cringe.
Oh God, and they played the video of Hillary mocking Obama in error.
Obama played this so well. Instead of taking a "shame on you" angle he complimented her comedic delivery! Then responded to the larger issue.
This clip makes her look so caddy. I didn't expect it to play tonight (you can tell she didn't either) and I think it's really damaging for her.
Just rewatched the "denouncing vs. rejecting" exchange. Not only does Obama mock her pettiness, but he gets a chuckle out of the crowd doing it.
I've (re)seen enough. Time for bed.
Wisconsin was one nail on the coffin. The last debate was the final nail. She has been and is done.
Still would be nice to see Obama come close in Ohio, to get her to concede. If she keeps on, she will keep trying to bring him down and drag this out just to help herself.
As far as tonight, I think it was another draw (that makes about 14 draws and 2 wins a peice for Hillary, Obama, and Edwards)
Did think Barack was a bit slow to start tonight. He is better standing up while debating.
And Russert sucks. He is all "gotcha" questions and little substance. His only legit question seemed to be the Russia stuff, and that nearly put me to sleep (not that it is unimportant). Further, that was probably a "gotcha" hoping someone could not talk sufficiently to the topic.
At least the crowd was not allowed to cheer every 2 seconds....CNN generally annoys me with all that.
And hillary's claim about the moderators/questions being biased against her is so pathetic. What a whiny little baby.
I wish Obama would have later joked about it when he went first....but all the questions were sort of serious, so not much room to joke.
Clinton was terrible. Absolutely terrible. The whining about getting asked questions first, the SNL line, denounce/reject, trying to talk over Williams when he wanted to go to a break, etc. -- all very unpresidential.
A Hillary supporter came to our table at the theater last night and challenged us on the denounce/reject thing, while also claiming that Obama tried to tie Iraq to Al Qaeda (when answering the "reinvade in six months" question), and would act like Dubya and not talk to foreign leaders in a way that helps the US. On the latter point, when I noted that he is interested in talking to our enemies, she said, "with no conditions!" Wait a minute, a second ago, you said he wouldn't talk to enemies...
She also complained that he invokes China when talking about NAFTA.
The myth of the rational voter, indeed.
She Makes my dog bark!
Obama was very impressive especially on NAFTA. I disagree with a lot of his stances, but he was presidential tonight and destroyed Hilary last night.
"And Russert sucks. He is all "gotcha" questions and little substance".
Agreed. Pumpkinhead gave Bush a free ride for far too long.
Mencken
I disagree about Russert's questions being anything but well prepared substantive questions. I always enjoy his questions because he inserts the candidates' specific records on issues. I appreciated the question on Russia, in particular. I also did not realize at the time that HRC jumped in to answer that one. She really shot herself in the foot (on that response, among so many others) as she could have waited for Obama to demonstrate his foreign policy knowledge by stating the new Russian president's name. Instead, she pounced on the question (answering it first - interesting given her comments about always having to answer the tought questions first) and then she made the huge mistake of saying "whatever" when Russert corrected her on the new president's name.
My take:
Obama - very bright, concise answers (generally), leadership look, great answers and gives credit where due
HC - Status Quo crook, pandering, occulting all her rich interests that would be discovered in her income tax return. MAKES MY DOG BARK! Bondo Face, Great Dimples and pretty blue eyes, WHY AM I ALWAY FIRST? (loser)
Tim Russert: Warts on face, goofy hypotheticals...but a B- for effort
Williams: The clear winner in the "debate" (Ya), I loved his lead in "There are NO Rules"
Oh the drawbacks of 52" HDTV!!!!
HC may still win Ohio but will lose Texas - Stick a fork in her cankles.
But Hark! : I hear the SuperAssDelegates conspiring as we speak!
Russert rocked last night.
Russert asked great questions. He forced them to talk about positions outside of their usual campaign rhetoric, and he wouldn't let HC get away with any bullshit.
HC keeps calling herself a fighter, and Obama a talker. When i think of our most successful presidents, I think charisma, not fighter. Reagan, FDR, Lincoln, and even Bill were all successful because they were charismatic enough to be convincing. You can't fight your way through a stalemated congress, forcing the passage of proposals, you have to use the power of words and persuasion.
I don't care how great she thinks her healthcare plan is, it would never get through congress as written, especially with HC standing behind it. Republican will readily unite, and block the passage of her propaosals. At least Obama's plan has an element of choice, which may sway a few Republicans to vote for it.
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