Oct 17 - 46/45 - McCain +01
Of course we'll support the party's nominee
Unrelated: On behalf of of our staff and readers, I want to wish Chief Source Marathon Relay Team captain Michael Maney good luck this weekend. He is traveling to Atlanta for the ING Georgia Marathon. This event is part of his ongoing conditioning for his first Iron Man this summer. Maney works extremely hard at his conditioning and training. It is inspiring. Good luck sir.
By Kyle - 3/27/2008
41 Comments:
I am for Barack Obama. I'm pro. I'm happy to be supporting my candidate. I wear his t-shirts on the weekends when I go out. If I was asked this question, I would have said that if Obama loses that I would vote for Hillary. I can say that because I believe Obama is going to win and so I wouldn't be threatened by this hypothetical. Plus, I'd rather have Senator Clinton over John McCain.
The more realistic scenario I see playing out is Hillary replacing Harry Reid and becoming Senate Majority Leader. I would ABSOLUTELY support that move.
Kyle, the real issue is you wearing Obama t-shirts on the weekends when you go out...
=)
LMAO
Awesome, Bigot Wright also smears Italians. Is any race besides blacks safe from his race-baiting rhetoric?
It's a shame Obama might go down in flames because of this idiot. I do not believe Obama thinks that way, but it was incredibly foolish to choose him as his spiritual advisor. Also, Obama needs to come out with another statement completely distancing himself from the racist Wright.
If you think it is bad now, just wait til he wins the nomination
This makes sense to me that so many Hillary supporters will support McCain, because she is more like McCain than Obama on foreign policy. So for all those that were for the Iraq War to start and those that are comfortable attacking Iran, Hillary and McCain are much closer.
Note: I will NEVER vote for McCain. I also doubt I would vote for Hillary, leaving the Green Party as an option.....oh wait, there is no scenario Hillary can be the nominee, so I don't have to worry....I will be voting for Barack Obama.
lastly, silent, all polls show Obama is not being hurt by this Wright crap.
another tangent.
two of our best friends (married) live in a rural'ish setting just away from an urban area. their street is a dead end, so they don't get traffic just passing through all that often, i imagine, except maybe ppl sight seeing or whatever.
they put an obama sign out, and it didn't even make it a full day before someone stole it.
if they are a republican or a "let the process work" clintonite, then so much for law and order and the constitution and freedoms and democracy.
in my life, i have been infuriated and frustrated with politics and politicians. but not once have i *ever* done anything like removing/defacing someone's show of support. on public property and on private, this holds true. it doesn't matter how i feel about the politician.
amazing.
The polls also showed Guiliani and Hillary running away with it. I just think it is common sense it's going to hurt him.
I once tore up a Bush sign. People are passionate. If you really think that such actions indicate a willingness to deny the constitution, freedom, or democracy, I think you are making a pretty big jump in your assumption.
If you want to accuse Clinton or McCain supporters of being anti-constitution, anti-democracy, etc, then what do you think of the Racist Wright being a spiritual advisor?
My point is, if you do not want people to accuse Obama supporters of being racist based on the words of Racist Wright, then you also cannot accuse Clinton or McCain supporters of being anti-constitution/democracy/freedom because some yahoo tore up a sign.
Chuck,
In all seriousness, you are usually the one who accuses whites of being racist and discriminatory. So based on these views, I do not understand how you, of all people, do not think this is going to hurt him.
I am honestly not being a dick, I just think it contradicts your usual position.
This poll (and related commentary) pissed my off all yesterday. It's so misleading. The implication is that Dems are less likely to rally around Obama, than Hillary. This is turning reality on it head by telling half the story.
If Obama wins the popular vote and the pledged delegates, but the super delegate reverse the will of the people, the youth vote will be disenfranchised and the black vote will feel cheated. Will these people vote for McCain? No. Probably not. They simply won't vote. And there is no comparable voter bloc collapse on the Hillary side.
To get a balanced view of this issue the question should be framed as:
Obama supporter? What will you do if Hillary is the Democratic Nominee:
(A) vote Hillary
(B) vote McCain
(C) vote Nader
(D) not vote
Hillary supporter? What will you do if Obama is the Democratic Nominee:
(A) vote Obama
(B) vote McCain
(C) vote Nader
(D) not vote
No doubt this poll would reveal a very different result.
Not to mention that this poll only questions self-proclaimed Hillary or Obama voters. Another (equally important) question is: who will peel off more undecided Independents and disenfranchised Republicans from McCain?
Point is: Don't believe the hype. Left leaning voter are much less likely to rally behind Harding (sorry, I mean: Hillary) than Obama.
Her 37 percent positive rating is now at a seven-year low. Imagine where it'll be after another 8 weeks of attacking Obama and a super delegate coup.
Should she win, she'd be lucky if just 2/3 of Americans view her unfavorably.
Do you think that most people who steal signs are opposing the campaign?
It was crazy working on the Hillary campaign-- people were stealing signs and buttons and stickers and stuff because they wanted them and the numbers we had were limited. Volunteers would come into the office and say that their signs were stolen out of their yards and strangely a new one would pop up down the road the next morning.
I once stuck a Kerry bumper sticker over the door handle of Alex Arshinkoff's Titanic sized SUV.
Was that an inappropriate us of campaign material?
BTW
I would, without a second's hesitation, vote for McCain over Hillary.
And that's not a bluff or sour grapes (super delegate coup aside) I honestly favor him over her. His speech yesterday at the World Affairs Council was actually great.
I hate the War in Iraq, but I also trust that McCain will not tolerate torture, will close GITMO, will not trample civil liberties like Bush&Co. and does not view (and will not wage) it as a war-for-profit.
The war aside. I have no doubt that he's more serious about cleaning up Washington and ending the ear-mark and pork barrel orgy than Hillary is.
I have serious doubts about the costs and quality of universal Health Care, am hardly a defender of today's labor unions and am pro-responsible-gun-ownership. Three issues that I don't automatically side with the DNC on.
Also, McCain is no Tancredo when it comes to illegal immigration. I have no prob with his balance of securing the border and (call it what you will) amnesty.
And on top of it all, is the issue of integrity. While I don't love McCain, he avoided gutter politics in his comeback against a ruthless Romney. A "win-at-all-costs" Romney campaign that has paled in comparison to Hillary's.
All things considered, it's an easy choice for me.
Robert, you make good points. However, I think you left some key differences off the table, mainly the continuation of the Bush tax cuts and McCain's adherence to the cult of "free trade." The latter, which is destroying the middle-class, is more important than detainee rights or amnesty.
While I would not trust Hillary farther than I could throw her (is that politically incorrect to say bc of domestic violence?), I still think she will do more to help the middle-class than McCain.
Michael,
GOOD LUCK in Atlanta!
We'll all be rooting for you -- from a safe, warm barroom (with beers in hand)!
enough with all of you Obamabots quoting only what suits you--if you add in Fla (leave Michout & assume a 50/50 split) isn't Hillary is winning the popular vote? yeah blacks vote in a large bloc for BO, so what hispanics vote in a large bloc for Hillary.
Obama has peaked as well, and as more is known about him he will continue to crumble. Hillary isn't the only one practicing scorched earth, Jusrt wait until He gets his ass handed to him in Pa. Losing the far left is about as big a detriment as having your appendix removed.
Obama is hurt by Wright and will continue to be-Sorry but when your "spiritual advisor" makes claims that the white man invented aids and other nonsense then it pretty much caps any credibility you have with undecided.
The more I look at it the more it becomes apparent that the whole democratic party is more concerned with cannibalizing itself instead of winning.
Oh and most americans are opposed to bailouts for greedy fools who spent themselves into oblivion. As he continues to make absurd promises and illustrate his socialist views on society-he is not going to win over any more people.
in conclusion:
Congrats Barack you have captured the hearts of the far left, academic elite, and the naive youth vote-good luck trying to win with that
Robert, how can you possibly overlook Supreme Court appointments that McCain would make?
WOW Obama-bots advocating a scorched earth-
and the wind whispers --hypocrite
I've worked on campaigns since before I could walk, and dirty tricks (like sign stealing and putting bumper stickers on an opposing party leader's car/house/children) are nothing new --
Actually, with the invention of security cameras and legal/civil service protection, the "tricks" that are being used now are a LOT tamer than those used in past decades (such as having your opponent's butt kicked, his house set on fire, or his cousin being fired from his job).
The only major "advancement" in dirty tricks came with the invention of the internet, where you can now spread rumors/half-truths/lies at no cost and with complete anonymity, while the candidate has to spend time and resources to counter the lies/half-truths/rumors.
Silent,
You seem so proud to be white.
Why exactly is race such a big issue to you when you feel this way?
"long legged mac daddy" ....EXCELLENT points! It is unlikely that anyone from this blog will respond. Only "undesirables" would vote for a guy has NO experience and is a wolf in sheeps clothing when it comes to race.
Anonymous,
First, let me ask why you assume I am white? Is it because my comments fit your stereotype of a white person? Is it because my comments are generally said by a white person? Funny how everyone likes to think of "stereotype" as a 4-letter word, yet everyone does it.
I speak about race because it is the elephant in the room. No one speaks about it because they are terrified of being called a racist or saying something un-PC.
Seems like all we do here is discuss race.
And when someone posts as "Obama is a long legged mac daddy' it just shows how pointless the discussion can be and that third graders can use a computer.
Bob, what are we going to say to Hillary supporters when Obama is the nominee? How are we going to get them to enthusiastically board the Obama bandwagon if we say that we would never have voted for their candidate?
I don't see the point in answering the unlikely hypothetical of Senator Clinton's nomination in a way that discourages party unity. As I see it now, whoever is the nominee (Obama) is going to need a unified party. I am all for encouraging that.
Annie, you will be pleased to know that I have an Al Franken for Senate shirt in rotation. I need to get Tim Ryan, Bill O'Neill and John Boccieri shirts also.
I'd be very interested in responding to the comments that "obama is..." made, but, to be quite honest, I'm not sure what his reference points are for some of his comments. For one, saying that Obama has socialist views on society means what exactly? Is this in reference to his desire for a universal health care plan? Does that make Hillary's views on society socialist as well?
Also, according to all of the tallies that I have looked at (including various combinations of including and excluding Michigan and Florida), Obama still has a slight edge in the popular vote over Hillary. Of course, this is a very slight edge, but maybe we shouldn't be under the illusion that democracy actually matters in this country anymore (sorry, just a little residual bitterness from 2000).
In terms of the Rev. Wright debacle, well, what more can one say? Of course it has hurt Obama, and probably will continue to do so to some extent. But, I also think it provides an opportunity for Obama to show us what he is made of. If this is THE determining factor for whether Obama becomes the democratic candidate or not, then...actually, I won't finish that sentence because it doesn't make sense to talk about singular causes. If he fails on multiple fronts over the coming months, I will be the first to jump back on the Clinton bandwagon.
Also, as a side note to "anonymous," what does it mean to say that someone is a wolf in sheep's clothing when it comes to race? Does it mean that someone is a white man hiding in a black man's body (or vice versa)? I'm kidding of course, but seriously, I didn't understand that comment.
"As my mother often told me growing up, nothing was a greater blessing for me than to be born a white male in the United States of America - and I agree. I’ve been lucky as hell and I wouldn’t trade my background for anything, but…
Don’t you find it ironic that the people (liberals and TV pundits) who portray themselves as so politically correct are also the ones who rush to embrace Obama’s “blackness”? If I’m supposed to be colorblind at their behest, why aren’t they?"
silent feels as though Obama should run as a white candidate because his mother is white.
Oh Mencken, you are so unaware and silly
http://musingsfromcleveland.blogspot.com/2008/03/obama-is-long-legged-macdaddy.html
the name is a joke, and I believe I have contributed to this conversation, it is a shame that you can't say the same.
Kevin you silly boy-Obama advocates a single payer (the govt), while HIllary stipulates that all people are required to participate, but preserves a diversity of choices as to who pays, preserving competition and choice. Look at Obama, and many of his stances are government provided, unfortunately his manner for providing this is rollback of tax breaks for the rich (not venturing into the merits of these specific taxes) which won't cover the cost. His stances all seem to revolve around govt protecting not only the opportunity (government's true role) but also the impetus.
do not fear to engage me in debate, despite my tongue in cheek name
Kyle,
Considering Obama's delegate lead, I would agree that it'd be tactically wise for myself and other Obama supporters to tell Hillary supporters that we'd support her if she became the nominee (even if we wouldn't) or at least keep our mouths shut...
IF
...Hillary's surrogates weren't using this type of polling to justify a super delegate coup.
I would rather speak my mind and risk alienating some Hillary people now than sit quietly as polls like this one are used to fabricate a more-electable Hillary and justify a reversal of the will of the people.
Could you imagine our collective regret, if we smiled and downplayed our dissent while super delegates, with their fingers in the wind gauging which blow-back would be worse, saw our smiles on the one side, their torches on the other and crowned Hillary?
I'll take my chances with the Vonnegut's honest truth: I won't vote for Hillary.
Right but Vonnegut would also considre the Obama cult to be a grand falloon
if you count fla and allow Mi to revote, since BO wasn't on the ballot--I think your "will of the people" will defintely switch to the better candidate-Hillary
"obama is..." - hmmm, yes, I see the difference, but I was referring more to the notion of mandates in Clinton's plan. Although there may be an element of choice in her plan, the state is still mandating coverage and taking an active role in making such coverage accessible and affordable. Perhaps this is just splitting hairs...either way, I find both plans better than what we are faced with right now. Frankly, I don't find much to be "socialist" in either candidate.
Anonymous,
WRONG.
Check the numbers
In the popular vote (this includes primary states whose delegates will be seated):
Obama is up 717,276 votes
If you add Florida:
Obama is up 422,504 votes
But remember that doesn't include some caucus states which didn't release vote totals. If you include estimates based on caucus results for IA, NV, ME and WA:
Obama is up 532,726 votes
Even if you added Michigan AS IS (Hillary gets 328,309 votes, Obama gets 0):
Obama is up by 204,417
Stop talking out your ass.
"In this era of big brains, anything that can be done will be done...so hunker down."
-Kurt Vonnegut, Galapagos
i think that says it all.
robert, gald to see you back :)
Oh roberto that is leaving out the populus states to come, which Hillary will win the point is that it is razor thin, and you and your fellow parrots will be arguing the popular vote over such a narrow margin rendering it moot
I guess we differ on words then kevin, when one campaigns and is in essence saying that more of your productivity should go to the govt to increase govt controlled services-I think of that as a socialist stance. As opposed to Hillary who is mandating participation, but not in the form of govt services-Similar to auto iinsurance-you are required by law to have it-yet you have choices in plans, providers, etc.
Robert, thanks for coming back. I agree with all of your positive points about McCain - But his downside is too great as others have stated here. The "free trade" charade and the Supreme Court nominee suggestion are quite important but I firmly believe that it is time for the Republicans to relinquish power for a while. They have literally shot their wad and shot Uncle Sam in the foot to boot!
I have mulled voting for McCain should HC get the Nom but have scrapped the idea for now.
As for destroying anothers signs - that is malicious destruction of private property.
Mencken : I once stuck an "LBJ for the USA" on Anthony's head and then ripped out his hair with it. In Painesville, where I grewup, FASSON Corp produced stickon campaign stuff - so for us jr hi kids, stickers were omnipresent.
Personally, I think its Obama's time to be Prez - the Nation is ripe. I swear to this on KV's memory.
So it Goes
robert...did you get that psychiatric help you so needed?
well if by psychiatric help you mean a lobotomy, then yes, that would explain all of the Obama love
Mac Daddy:
I think you are confused.
Obama does not propose single payer, his plan is much like clinton's, except he doesn't require people to have insurance, as clinton's does.
Just check his website, watch a debate or read the news.
Your article is really marvellous.I like it very much.
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